The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Hi, i m from Indonesia

bubble's picture
bubble

Hi, i m from Indonesia

Hi,


I ve been baking bread for the last 9 years using the commersial yeast. A year ago, a relative, he is a cheff


in US gave a visit and told me about baking bread with natural yeast. He teached me a little how to make the starter.


I find it very interesting, but still not confidence of using it.  I hope by joining this forum, i can learn how to make european type bread that's cruncy & contain more fiber.


I think with the climate that always warm (26-30 C) and humid, making sourdough shuold be easier. So i want to learn from great teachers in this forum and starting


my journey of baking with natural yeast.


 


 

sphealey's picture
sphealey

bubble,
Welcome to The Fresh Loaf!  I will be interested to hear about your experience baking with sourdough in a tropical climate.


sPh

hanseata's picture
hanseata

and I remember we had some posts here on baking with sourdough in tropical climates.


You will find more information if you use the search function and just put in "tropical climate".


Happy baking,


Karin

bubble's picture
bubble

thank you for your guidance Karin, what a great forum .

kenny10099@hotmail.com's picture
kenny10099@hotm...

may you help me to find information how to make bread in indonesian bakeries ?

maybe video maybe an article but i need all proscess including timing. what king of machines in use ffor bakeries. etc etc 

 

bubble's picture
bubble

Hi Kenny,

I 'm sorry for not replying soon. I 'm not sure about Indonesian bread that you are interested in.  Most Indonesian bakeries produce soft sweet bread with many kinds of filling inside. It contains 20 % of sugar and 20 % of fat, pretty close to brioche i would say. We do straight dough method, so the process is done in about 4 hours from mixing to baking. The machines mostly come from taiwan and china, planetary and spiral type. 

If you are interested about baking sourdough in Indonesia, I have been experimenting making breads with levain over a year. I tried some of hamelman recipe and work very well. I have to use ice water to make my final dough 76F. I am still learning the best way to maintain my starter in room temperature of 78 F-83F. After trying to make Tartine bread today with a great result except the scoring, I 've been thinking about bread production without machines help as the book showed me. If you are interested to know my process of baking sourdough in Indonesia, I will try to post it in the forum. 

 

 

 

 

 

Jean Paul's picture
Jean Paul

This subject has already a long white beard but I just discover it now. This is one of the problems to jump in a train fully loaded. There are thousands of subjects already treated. I have been using several times Forums of all sorts to get an information and depending the time of the day and number of beers absorbed by some participants, one get often the answer: use the search button or Google it! :-)))

I have found to see a lot of courtesy and well informed people about the bread topics on this forum.

All this said, yes Indonesians included my wife love super sweet breads pink, purple, green or blue!:-) They even use bread as a support for ice cream!

I am a retired Belgian and live in a remote little town of Java island. Bread with European standard is totally unknown here so since several years I have been fishing information in books and Internet and very lately on this excellent and very complete Forum.

I do hope that since you have got good information and found the right ingredients to make your breads. It would be nice to exchange some infos. I have had to import a lot of my equipment but fortunately I recently found very high protein white flour in the country. My breads are now coming nice out of the oven. I have already participated a little on this forum.

Regards

 

bubble's picture
bubble

Hi Jean,

Great to hear from you. It's a good idea to change information to achive the best result in baking artisan bread with what are available in this country. Currently, many options of flour available from many milling companies. Especially in Java. What city are you live in?

What bread are you baking?

 

bubble's picture
bubble

Hi Jean,

Great to hear from you. It's a good idea to change information to achive the best result in baking artisan bread with what are available in this country. Currently, many options of flour available from many milling companies. Especially in Java. What city are you live in?

What bread are you baking?

 

Jean Paul's picture
Jean Paul

I bubble! Thanks for your answer. I am from Belgium and I first worked here in East Java in cigar wrappers production during 15 years. I am now retired since 5 years and let my Indonesian wife work as a docent at the local university. We live in Jember. I have tried so many brands in these 20 years but only recently I have decided about my final choice. I tried many types of Prambanan brands but was not happy about the results. I have imported a 25kgs sac of French T65 flour but also I will reserve it for pizzas or waffles. I also tried with much better results the cakra kembar from Bogasari. Very few weeks ago I got in touch with a technician from Interflour group Indonesia and they gave me 3kg to try and I said This Is What I Need!!! I got very very good results. The protein is very high and I get super good elasticity in my dough. I have bought the 3 first courses of Teresa Greenway and This lady knows what she talks about. Her courses are so detailed that any idiot could bake bread. Of course I had to import lot of equipment in order to achieve good results. I bake  twice a week the Boules which are very convenient just for two of us. I use the Lodge Iron cast system and it is perfect. I had to import adequate gloves because the very high heat. I also use only the sourdough from now on and I keep it the fridge with absolutely no problems. Titan Bakery in Jakarta have also some stuff and it is very easy to get them in Jember in 2 days. I bought some flour from Healthy Choice also in Jakarta. It take a lot of Googling but I find what I need. I use Sea Salt from Bali and the water is just Aqua from the Danone group. I am sure I am missing a lot of info but please ask me if I can help. Finally, I bake bread for pleasure and do not pretend to start a business at almost 71 years old!!!:-)) Have a good day and sorry to the Administrator it there were some abuse in this post. 

kenny10099@hotmail.com's picture
kenny10099@hotm...

i am on traveling  when i come back to istanbul i will reply 

kenny10099@hotmail.com's picture
kenny10099@hotm...

i am now in istanbul . 

first of all. how do you use the yeast dry or wet maybe sourdough? you have written that 20% sugar and 20% fat . arent they too much they are ? you can talk with me in msn messenger kenny10099 @ hotmail com

thank you very much 

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19367/first-sourdough-starter-mike039s-way

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11767/baking-bread-tropics

Read through these posts-you may find them helpful. There is also a Handbook and Videos available on the links just below "The Fresh Loaf" on top of this page.

You have a steep learning curve ahead but it can be done. If you bake bread with commercial yeast, you already know a lot about bread-what it is,how it should behave and also about how to handle yeast in a tropical environment. The trick for you is to keep the dough cool enough so it doesn't over rise before the dough can support itself!

Sourdough, or natural levain, is very similar to yeast becasue IT IS yeast. So now you have to learn how to grow and maintain your yeast. There are a LOT of different ways to do it. This site uses an easy method that uses pineapple juice instead of water to encourage an acidic environment for the yeast to grow and discourage bacteria from growing that would spoil the yeast culture. My recommendation is to start with small amounts of flour-no more than 30 g all purpose/white flour. Work with small amounts until your culture is well established and then it is easy to build a larger volume. That way you will not be wasting a lot of flour. When you are building a starter, you will be discarding about half of it and then adding fresh flour and water on a regular basis. You have to think of it as if you are feeding an animal or small pet with fresh flour and water and cleaning its cage by discarding some of the old. It gets large and expensive if you are doing this with 300 g of flour each time!

So first start by reading. Then start building your starter. It will take at least 7-10 days before you can even think about baking with it. At first it will not be the best bread but it will get better with every bake. Your starter will work well as long as you take care of it.

Have delicious fun!

 

bubble's picture
bubble

Hi Kenny, I tried to answer to your email, but keep failing.
In Indonesia most bakeries use instant dry yeast. Fresh yeast we can get from selected supplier but indonesian recipes always calls for instant yeast.
While learning sourdough bread, I 've been thinking too why Indonesian bread contain so many fat and sugar. It has become people's taste. Here is the common recipe for Indonesian sweet bread ( in gram)
1000 White bread flour
200 sugar
20 instant yeast
2-4 egg yolk
4 bread improver
200 fat (margarine/butter)
10 Salt
500 water/milk

Indonesian was colonised by Dutch for 350 years, but I don't think that recipe came from them, since I found similarity with bread in Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam.
My feeling is that back then , when asian people are suffering during war, meat, milk, eggs, sugar, fat were luxury that only rich people can effort.
So when the economic situation getting better, they put eggs, fat and sugar into bread to give nutrition to their body and also a symbol of prosperous.
Well, i am not sure but I remember that sweet bread was such a luxury during my childhood.
How about bread in Istanbul ?

Clazar, thank you for the link. I followed Hamelman book to make my starter, and did through away a lot of flour.
I should know that using a small amount of flour would work too. Sourdough bread is a way different to Indonesian sweet bread. It is a challenge for me to bring it out to the market.

hanseata's picture
hanseata

That sounds similiar to the times, when Germans thought good wine shouldn't be "sour", and prefered sweet wines (probably sweetened with the help of anti-freeze) to dry ones. Fortunately that has changed! (Though some remnants of those days persist in American supermarket wine shelves - if there is any German wine it's most likely "Liebfraumilch" or (shudder) "Blue Nun").

Karin

 

Jean Paul's picture
Jean Paul

anti freeze was a story that came out in the early 80's in Austria with white wines!:-))

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I feel I have to respond to this... There were more stories, not only in Austria.  The story in Austria was about a particular glycol which also can be used for anti-freeze.   Not all types of antifreeze are toxic.  One particular "Ice" wine (singular) was involved from a specific area many years ago.  Also, you would be surprised how much antifreeze you probably eat currently.  

http://www.thedailymeal.com/news/common-foods-and-drinks-hiding-antifreeze-compound/103014

http://www.dynalene.com/Propylene-Glycol-s/1840.htm

 

Jean Paul's picture
Jean Paul

Hi mini oven,

you are absolutely right and you have an excellent memory! At the time I was working in Hungary between 1978 and 1992 and I was living on the lake Balaton area very close from the glycol scandal in Austria.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_diethylene_glycol_wine_scandal

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Do not be fooled by the name "sour dough". Sourdough is just yeast and  the starter tastes sour so the yeast can grow. When you use it in a sweet dough, it works very well. My regular sandwich bread also tastes good with no sourness to it. Sourdough starter is just yeast. It can be developed (through feeding intervals and temperature) so the bread you make is sour tasting or it can be used to make a neutral or even sweet tasting bread. Sourdough is liquid form of homegrown yeast and is what was used to make bread for thousands of years. Commercial yeast was gladly embraced because it provided a consistent behaviour,fast dough development and was easily stored. It also did not require maintenance.

So try a loaf of Indonesion Bread made with sourdough and see how you like it. I cannot comment on how to bring it to market but it sounds like you have that expertise. It may just be something you enjoy for your family.

buns's picture
buns

Akhirnya dpt temen jg dr indonesia hehe
nice to know you bubble
happy baking !