The Fresh Loaf

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Fools crumb?

Julian Locke's picture
Julian Locke

Fools crumb?

I've been trying to improve my crumb using the Tartine book 1 recipe, but with 82.5 hydration.. Is this an example of fools crumb, or is my bread moving in the right direction?

Either way, how do I get fewer small holes, fewer large holes, and more medium large ones?

Method is as follows:

45 minute autolyse with the below and 82 FDT

875 white KABF
125 whole wheat
200 leaven
775 water

Then
50 water + 20 salt

Dough temp ranged between 79 -82 over bulk
4.5 additional hours of bulk, with stretch and fold every 30m for the first two hours, then every hour.

45 minute bench rest
Tartine method three fold then roll shape.
One hour room temp proof
1.5 hour fridge time

Baked in dutch oven for 25 minutes, then oven for 25 minutes.



Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

I don't think so, but it's not entirely clear.  It looks very moist, but it's hard to believe it could be underbaked after 50 minutes.  Did you take their internal temp?  You certainly had a very long bulk ferment, over 5 hours including the bench rest.

Your one hour room temp and 1.5 hours cold final rise could be underdoing it.  Did the the shaped loaves rise substantially during that time?

Julian Locke's picture
Julian Locke

They did not rise substantially during that time. I left one loaf cold final rise until morning, and that one rose a little more, but had even more tunneling and weird structure. I'll try to lower bulk a little and add to final, and I'll also ncheck my oven temps. 

Thanks for the advice!

Julian Locke's picture
Julian Locke

Filomatic, you were right. I needed a shorter bulk, a tighter shape, a longer final proof, and a hotter longer bake.

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

and amazing how a bit of tweaking makes a difference! Kat

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Well done.  Both bakes are excellent.  I think this looks quite similar to the other ones, actually. There are still some quite large holes, although less tight crumb overall in the second one.  You have a well performing, active starter and a light touch, clearly.

Questions:  how long were the bulk and final proofs this time, and was the final bulk all cold or how was it split?

What temp/time were bake 1 vs. 2?  We didn't know this before.

Julian Locke's picture
Julian Locke

Thanks! I am pretty excited about this last one, it tasted great as well. In terms of crumb, the second one had large holes but no real caverns, and slightly softer lighter crumb between the large holes. 

To answer your questions:

For the second bake, auto and bulk lasted 4 hours at 82, with a 20 minute bench rest after. Final proof was about 1:45 at 78, then overnight retard.

First bake temp: Preheat to 550, then turn down to 460 + add bread in covered dutch oven for 25, then 25 uncoverd
Second back temp: Preheat to 550, then turn down to 500 + add bread in covered dutch for 20, then turn down to 450 and remain in covered dutch for ten, then 20 minutes uncovered at the same temperature.

Very satisfying bake.

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Do you think the bake temp and times made a significant difference?  If so, what?  Nearly all Hamelman's recipes bake at 460 F.

Note, fridge temp makes a difference on the timing.  We keep ours pretty cold, so I rarely do retard less than 24 hours.  I'd be interested to see what result you get without any warm final rise.  Have you ever tried it?

Julian Locke's picture
Julian Locke

I've tried a similar regimen with no warm final proof and 8 hour cold retard with mediocre results. Here was a recent one, I think the structure is tighter without the warm final proof time.

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

I think that's a very good result, but somewhat under risen.  8 hours is probably too short unless your fridge is kept in the 50s F.  You might consider 18-24 hours.  Hamelman has base guidelines for fridge temp and times, which are instructive.  I often go much longer than he recommends.

Julian Locke's picture
Julian Locke

Next time I bake I'll stick a shaped loaf directly in the fridge for a long proof. Interested in the results.