Starting out - tips to improve, please!
Hi there - so after a long absence I'm baking levain bread again. I have got a pure rye starter going (100% hydration) and am using the basic Tartine recipe to get myself back into practice.
They've been getting better: for my first two tries I retarded the proving stage in the fridge overnight for 8-12 hours and got very flat loaves, while for my third try I proved at room temp for 2.5 hours and it was a much better loaf. The fourth try is pictured. Definitely the best yet but I'd welcome some ideas about what to vary/try next to keep improving it. For my taste, there should be more rise/oven spring and a slightly looser crumb. I would also like to be able to do one of the stages (either bulk or proving) overnight to fit better into my day - and not sure how to try this out.
Tips please?
Method for pictured loaf:
1. Made leaven at 0830 with 40g starter, 100g white flour, 100g water
2. Leaven floated at 1310; started "autolyse" at 26 degrees C (with leaven added as per Chad Robertson)
3. After 30 minutes, added remaining water and salt and started bulk fermentation at 26 degrees. Four stretch-folds at slightly irregular intervals during first 3 hours, total 5 hours bulk fermentation. I get masses of large gas bubbles in the dough at this stage (visible at the top under the skin) - is this evidence of insufficient dough strength, say?
4. Preshaped into two boules, then shaped 20 minutes later.
5. Baked one loaf (this one, pictured) after 2 hours proving at room temperature (25 min in cloche lid on, 25 min lid off) and the other after 3 hours. This loaf had many noticeable large gas bubbles in the bottom (before I inverted into cloche) after proving.
6. First loaf with reasonable oven spring; second loaf definitely flatter.
I’m making Tartin bread right now. Baked one yesterday and will be baking another today.
You might like this video. It’s what I’m using and the results are great. http://www.breadwerx.com/make-tartine-style-country-bread-video/
This was my first attempt. I followed Trevor’s video.
Wishing you great success!
Dan
I am also using a 100% rye starter. I noticed in Trevor’s video that it appears he is using a white starter. On the first bake I followed his instructions fully. But for the second bake I brought the flours back in line with his formula. My 75 gram starter had 38 grams of rye. So I subtracted that from his total rye of 48g, leaving only 10g of rye in the final mix. I also had to ad an additional 38g of BF to make up the difference. I did notice an improvement in the feel of the dough. I will bake this second loaf today.
Dan
but I had to laugh at myself - please don't take offense, this is totally meant in the spirit of humor: That bottom shot of your hand holding the split loaf reminds me of a Rorschach test.
Doctor: "And what do you see on this one...?"
Patient: "Umm... that one looks like bread."
LOL ;-)
Had to look up Rorschach test.
”a test for revealing the underlying personality structure of an individual by the use of a standard series of 10 inkblot designs to which the subject responds by telling what image or emotion each design evokes“
- - I wonder, what does this tell the Psychiatrist about you? LOL
Dan
Ad: "This is your brain on bread ..."
two questions:
a. do you use your anskarum at all for this recipe? or just slap/fold
b. how long will the dough last in fridge before baking? it sounded like you baked one loaf, and then the second a day later?
ok, a third question
c. i've been trying to figure out a way to bake the oval loaves without a dutch oven setup; they are too big to fit into an oval loaf pan, but i do feel they need help so that they dont flatten out. suggestions?
No I don’t use the Ank for everything, it depends on which bread I bake. For many artisanal breads I’m going more and more to stretch & fold. But when I need a mixer that’s the one I use.
In the case above, I mixed each dough on a separate day. I am in the process of test baking to learn more about the Tartine Bread and also the techniques involved. But, I think you could mix a double batch (it might be best to time the beginning of the refrigeration to take place in the evening so that the second loaf is not retarded too long), refrigerate in the evening and bake 1 the next day and the other the following morning. My experience, up to this point leads me to believe that the cold proof is very forgiving. I used to use a cold bulk retard. But for me it is easier to shape the dough and the do an extended cold proof. When ready to bake, the dough is removed from the frig, slashed cold, and then placed into a pre-heated Dutch Oven. Leslie Ruf taught me that technique some time ago and I’ve never looked back.
I have been baking small oval loaves in my DO. But as you said, they spread out and end up almost like boule. I had to get a smaller banneton to get it to fit the DO. Here is what I use. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0148CJARO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Or if you don’t mind a slightly structured looked this is what I use with great results See covered baker The baker constricts the sides of the loaf causing the bread to rise very high. The finished loaf doesn’t look exactly free formed, but it does look pretty close. Now that I’m thinking about it, I’m going to bake the Five-Grain Levain in it tomorrow.
Hope some of this helps.
Dan
that's the very one i'm thinking about. but wasnt sure it would hold 1/2 of tartine or forkish; hardly looks big enough. king arthur has a similar one that is enameled, but again, i'm not sure about size. i wish somebody would make a reasonably priced smaller, 4 qt oval dutch oven, but they dont seem to exist.
i used to use the USA (with a roasting pan over it), but the loaves spill over the ends making for odd shaped loaves
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001QWCWXY/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I23NAXQDXD1LNE&colid=2QJ9IXYEBQKXM&psc=1
so now i was thinking about this one , but not sure it will hold 1/2 a tartine or Forkish loaf; and i'd have to make sure it fits under the roasting pan
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UNMZPS/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3H4RMAWAGEYDA&colid=2QJ9IXYEBQKXM&psc=1
It’s 3 times the money, but if you can spring for the oblong clay baker listed above, I’m pretty sure you’ll be ecstatic that you did. Since you don’t mind the idea of a semi structured loaf, that clay baker suites you to a tee.
I’ve used mine for years and it is as good as new. Although it is obvious (browned coloring) that it has done its share of baking.
Love USA pans, but your bread will probably look much more like a loaf rather than a free form. Maybe that is what you’re going for. The baker looks almost completely free formed. There is a slight straightening of the sides just under the seeds. That is the only baker markings on the loaf.
Sad to say, I’m not sure I remember the dough weight. I know it is at least 800g. Might go 1000g.
Let us know if you decide on something.
Dan
Still had the original instructions in it too. Baking should be cheap! I sometimes lower the hydration just so I don't have use a basket either:-) I'm really cheap though....:-)
You find the most incredible stuff there. Our Goodwill is pathetic.
If dab lives in an area with a significant population of retirees, particularly if many of them are transplants from out of state, there may be a higher incidence of estate sales and related donations than in your area. Just maybe.
Paul
had that very thought just after I submitted that comment.
oh wow, that's with your clay baker? is that a 2 lb loaf? or 2.5? i'm definitely ordering. i'm looking for as little 'shape' as i can, but still give structure to the rise. that might be just the thing.
We were posting at the same time.
Sad to say, I’m not sure I remember the dough weight. I know it is at least 800g. Might go 1000g.
I use a spreadsheet. And I often recalculate dough weights. It does produce a nice sized loaf.
Sure wished I had a better memory. Most of my loaves go 800 - 1000g.
You will love the baker. When you get it you’ll probably notice that the top fits a little loosely. I’m extremely particular, but as far as I can tell it hasn’t had an affect on the bake at all.
Dan
thank you; i'll report back once i get and use it!