Foodborne Illness Dangers Due to Long Fermentation?

I'll bite...

Long fermentations with a natural levain will tend to register acidic. These acids tend to favor certain bacterial growth that is favorable to the human gut. Adding meat and dairy to this long fermentation is asking for trouble in my opinion. I feel somewhat certain that the local health inspector would cite you for this, and personally I wouldn't risk it simply based on common knowledge as it pertains to long aerobic exposure at relatively high (higher than 40 F) temperatures.

If I were faced with your situation I would go ahead and continue the long fermentation without the meat and dairy, then add them in at the end during the final mix. Adding dairy and meat to a fermentation serves little to no flavor advantage and probably messes with the chemistry we bakers rely on for a predictable fermentation.

This is strictly my opinion and not based on any science.

Jim

I always ferment dough that has dairy in it in the fridge, and don't tend to put meat in my bread. If I did, that would also ferment in the fridge.

on the counter for 8 hours and would not feel better about it wrapped in fermenting dough on the other hand fully cooked bacon I would feel comfortable with.  This is my comfort level but if producing for the public you need to abide with what the local health unit requires and that may be entirely different since they regulate for broad spectrum of products rather than individual products.  In general health inspectors will err on the cautious side so I would think you may have to adjust your recipe in a way that cold fermentation can give you acceptable results.  There is always more than one road to Rome.

Gerhard

asking your food service safety instructor.  They might have a different viewpoint and give you the real skinny on what is acceptable--especially for vending to the public.

I wouldn't eat that. I also wouldn't serve it to anyone who was pregnant, nursing, and so on. I would eat bits of raw ground beef as a kid (25 years ago), but about 5 or 10 years ago there was a story about a kid who did that and died from a small amount. So depends on if you want to take that risk.

Also, if you want to sell from home (via a food cottage law) you will need to look into what kinds of bread you can sell. For example, I can't sell anything that has to be refrigerated or contains meat/cheese. That means breads with pizza like toppings and cream pies are a no-no for me. There's even a restriction about veggies and stuff. And even though our state allows it, but there are a couple of counties that still prohibit it or have their own stricter laws.

The bacon is salted and cooked - fine by me. The gruyere is heat treated during manufacture then salted and aged. You shouldn't have any real issues with it, but you may need to check the local food safety people. I'd be more worried about the overall level of salt in the dough than anything else...

I hold a level 2 food safety/hygiene certificate and have my kitchen inspected by the local authority (UK, England). The tricky part for me making that would be cooking the bacon - the key words are "cross contamination" - ie. touching fresh stuff that doesn't need cooking with raw bacon contaminated hands - still, bacon is salted and fairly sterile, however... To that effect, as I make products with raw meat, I cook and assemble the raw stuff in a separate kitchen with only cooked meats or enclosed meats (e.g. pastys) going into the bakery kitchen. If the bread is cooked properly, you'll kill everything - what you might not destroy is what any bugs might produce.

I regularly make cooked ham rolls (roll slices of ham, or posh cured meats) into bread dough, cut into rolls, proof and bake) They go down a treat (except in the local hippy veggie place - ah well, their loss!)

-Gordon

I've been in markets in Barcelona where cured hams are hanging up in the open air market.  These are ancient ways to preserve raw meats and such hams are safe to eat.  Also, very low pH is effective in preventing the growth of pathogens and I've marinated chicken and beef at room temperature for four or five hours prior to cooking on a barbecue with no ill effects.  The key issue is controlling things and cooking to a temperature that kills any stray bacteria that might be lingering (160F is the key temp here).

Bread is baked to an internal temperature of 205F which is sufficient to kill any pathogen.  As others have noted, for commercial products there are existing sanitary regulations that have to be followed.

I enjoy sushi and have never experienced any ill effects.

I've got to ask, why are you doing such long fermentations at room temperature?  Is your culture properly fed and active?  Are you sure you're doing your builds right?  At 12 hours on my kitchen counter, dough's not really useful for much more than making something very, very flat and cibatta-like -- and that only if it was minimally mixed/kneaded and never folded during the rise.

A strong, active culture should be able to give a reasonably quick first rise at kitchen temperatures even with heavy chunks of things like cheese or sausage in the dough; if you don't think the dough's ready for shaping you can give it a second "retarded rise" in the fridge, then pull it out, shape it, and pop it back in.  Shaping cold is helpful for loose or very wet doughs anyway -- so long as you're careful not to tear them.  It's fairly easy to get a regular, noon-to-morning workflow going this way: mix, first rise for a couple of hours, into the fridge, pop it out and shape after dinner, back into the fridge to retard overnight.  Overnight on the countertop with chunks of cheese etc. seems like not a great idea.

Looks good I would have a couple of slices for breakfast. 

Gerhard