The Fresh Loaf

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Can't get sourdough right!

gregavery's picture
gregavery

Can't get sourdough right!

The result I keep getting is a very dense, chewy loaf surrouding three or four enormous, cavernous holes.

I'll post my most recent method and see if anyone can spot what's up.

500g strong white flour

100g spelt

10g salt

50g starter (straight from the jar, didn't make a separate 'leaven')

450g water

 1) Mix

2) Autolyse (30 mins)

3) heavy kneading (12 mins)

4) Four strech-and-folds (10 mins apart)

5) spin for tension

6) proof in fridge for 11 hours

at this point when I take it out, even if it hadn't been refrigerated, its never risen that much, always quite shallow and stiff.

7) Preheat Dutch oven to 250c

8) bake for 20 mins 

9) lower oven to 180c and remove lid; bake for a further 30 mins

Any help would be appreciated!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

prefermented flour for the levain instead ofi a more normal amount that would be about 4 times that amount.  76% hydration is pretty high for European flours too espevcailly with the spelt in there.  Must be a pretty sloppy and slow dough for sure.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

the folds? It seems like you are rushing the first stage. 

And as to the rising in the fridge, take a picture before it goes into the fridge and one after. Comparing them will show you how much it has risen. I used to think that my loaves didn't rise at all in the fridge but comparing pictures proved me wrong. 

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

Leaven not ready or not enough leaven.  I don't need to read your process to know that. Don't move the dough onward until it has risen.  Otherwise you will get what you got.  It doesn't matter how long it takes; wait till it's risen.

PalwithnoovenP's picture
PalwithnoovenP

Your method sounds "very convenient" but not giving you the right results. In any case the starter should be fed so its strong to raise bread so you should make a separate build even if its inconvenient. Pre-fermented flour is way too low as dabrowman said, maybe try 120-180 g of recently fed active starter which means 60-90 g (10-15%) pre-fermented flour assuming your starter is 100%.

Did it rise in any stage? Your fermentation period is very short (about 40 minutes), even for breads made with commercial yeast. Sourdough is all about the slow fermentation to bring out the healthy and delicious stuff from the grain. Minimum time given between folds is usually 30 minutes. Bulk fermentation is crucial for success because it adds strength, flavor and dictates the behavior of the dough for the next processes. Ferment longer, you will notice the dough rising and changing.

Your description really fits my first sourdough. I bulk fermented it only for 2 hours with folds every 30 minutes. Shaped it into a round loaf then it went straight to the fridge for 12 hours. This is what happened! One TFler dmsynder was right that my loaf was underfermented.



Now I ferment it for 6 hours at 27°C/82°F with 5 folds 1 hour apart before shaping and a 14 hour proof in the fridge and the results are much much better. Your timing still depends on your starter and room temperature. Good luck!

markgo's picture
markgo

Hey gregavery, 

Our processes are very similar.

Except I bulk ferment between your steps 3 and 4, which (I believe) is the key step for building the gluten structure - which enables proper gas entrapment and optimal rise during baking (again, this is my best hypothesis based purely on my personal experience)

Maybe try that? 

For your reference, here's a video of my process: https://youtu.be/QXpRKoehv_U (4:56 length)

 

enchant's picture
enchant

gregavery, I'm new to bread baking and recently tried the Tartine country loaf.  I had a similar (possibly worse) problem as you're having.  My process is a little different than yours.  Longer time between stretch and folds, etc.  But it turns out that what was causing my massive holes was that prior to the final shaping and proofing, I was supposed to do a fairly rigorous stretch and fold, but wasn't.  I suspect that these huge holes were initially created during my bulk ferment steps and it wasn't degassed enough.  The gassy holes that were created during bulk ferment were only enhanced during proofing and baking.  I also read somewhere that the degassing and manipulation prior to proofing allows the yeast to move around, getting access to more food and new places to burp.