Loaf in loaf pan struggles to rise after overnight proof in fridge
I do a 50% whole grain sourdough loaf in a medium-sized bread pan (full recipe below), bulk fermenting around 5hr, shaping and then rising overnight in the fridge.
When I bake this sucker up in the morning, it really struggles to rise. A lot of times I'll barely get any sort of rise of any kind and just end up with a stupid old brick.
Any ideas? One thought was that the loaf pan is so cold after rising overnight in the fridge that the heat simply doesn't get to the dough and allow the gas to expand enough before the crust itself hardens. Do people usually let their overnight loaf pans come to room temp before baking?
Thanks for any help!
294g APF, 294 whole grain flour (usually stone-ground), 500g water, 80g starter.
Autolyse one hour in oven on bread-proofing setting (just to warm the dough up a bit). Add starter. Add 2tsp salt.
Bulk ferment at room temperature about 5hr. Stretch and fold at 30m, 45m, 1hr, 2.5hr.
Shape. Bread pan. Rise in fridge about 8hr. Preheat oven to 500; slide in bread pan; drop to 415. Bake for half an hour covered with other bread pan; remove top bread pan and finish baking.
Till we see a photo of the bread. Everything would be ok if the ferment was done properly and the pan was filled enough. But until we see a photo we can only throw out guesses.
Here's this morning's bake. Actually this rose marginally better than other attempts. But still not enough. I don't want any cracks in it—I want a nice solid loaf of unbroken bread—and as you can see the crust hardened before it could fully rise, leading to the large gash in the middle (that's not a score).
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When you cut into it a crumb shot will also help a lot! My guess, at this moment, is you aren't filling the pan enough. The more wholegrain used the more it should be filled.
Can you clarify what you mean by "not filling the pan enough?"
Will rise more so can be filled less. The more wholegrain used the less it'll rise so more dough should be used to get a tall loaf.
Question is... is your loaf dense or has it just not risen enough, without enough support, but still has a good crumb?
In general, if your pan is steel then it should not have a heating issue, as steel is very efficient to transfer heat.
How much did the dough grow during BF? That should be a good gauge for the amount of fermentation to occur.
A 50% wholegrain should not be much different than a dough with a 100% AP albeit the fermentation rate might be higher.
It looks like we could potentially point a finger to the starter. How old is the starter? How did you prep the starter? Starter questions would be best to address by some of our experts here.
Filling the pan is the best guess without anything more to go on. Could very well all be in the ferment but for that we need a crumb shot. Might be starter or could just need more time. Fridge temperature might also be an issue. We still need more info.
Yep, agree the more info the better for people to help solve a problem.
Thanks everyone very much for all your insight. Here are the answers to the queries:
1) The starter is very active. I feed it daily. It's been running strong for 4.5 years and gives great loaves. Actually I've been successfully doing pretty lofty 50% whole grain loaves for some time now with little problem. It's only recently that this has started and I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong (obviously I don't recall changing anything or I'd just reverse that lol).
I use the starter after it's risen and just before it looks to be on the verge of collapse. Full of glossy little bubbles, smells alcoholic and fruity, flows easily but isn't liquid.
2) Crumb shot for the latest loaf is below. This isn't the worst I've ever done but it's of course frustrating. It's tight. Not gummy, thankfully, but definitely too tight at 84% hydration.
Thank you!
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The crumb looks pretty good to me so I am not too sure about the source of your problem. Are you equating high hydration with an open crumb? I am still questioning that logic based on my limited experience but whatever works I guess.
Your mileage may vary but I always pan my dough after spending the night in the fridge. I bake almost 100 percent of my bread in loaf pans because I just bake for my wife and myself now days and we like that better. I hand mix all of my bread now days having given my Bosch mixer to our son but all of my bread and pizza dough is a two day process. Mix and hand work, one day, spends the night or two in the fridge and then form my loaves and put in pan for final rise and then bake. With using loaf pans your crumb will never be as open as not loaf pan bread but I like that better for toast and sandwich.
With pizza dough I start one day, then fridge and the next day remove for the fridge about noon, work my dough into a disk as it warms up and them get it ready for pizza at supper. I provide the dough ready to be decorate by my wife and then I do the bake. Makes great pizza for two old farts.
The majority of the bread I make these days is loaf pan bread. I'm not an expert baker by any stretch of the imagination. . . I started under covid lockdown, discovered how enjoyable it is, and kept going. So this is just some observations from my kitchen, see if anything helps.
Your loaf looks like it rises just fine. The oven spring split seems to be evidence of that. And as others have mentioned, the crumb of a pan loaf doesn't ever seem to be as open as a boule, batard, etc.
That said, you could try changing your flour selection. Whole grain bread does tend to be more dense. In my experience, using at least some bread flour helps give the dough the strength it needs to achieve a more open crumb.
I also find I get better results by kneading with my mixer for about 12-14 minutes, to moderate gluten development. That helped quite a bit. And when I bake, I put another same sized loaf pan on top as a lid. Steve Gamelin calls it a "poor man's dutch oven", capturing steam so the crust doesn't set too soon.
My current process here, in case there is something in there that helps.
Hope something in the above helps!
Mary
Before baking: How about 3 thin scores on the loaf before baking followed by a spray of water on the bread surface and the inside of the covering pan ?
is screaming overproofed to me. I could be wrong. The crumb looks very heavy and wet too. The top crust did set too soon. Hmmm. Spring and fall temperature changes are often playing havoc with starter temps and fermentation. Try using the starter just as it peaks and see if that makes a difference. If the room/water/flour is now warmer or colder than normal adjust rise times accordingly.
Is the loaf covered in the fridge?
Hi folks,
Another loaf this week produced much stronger results. Photos below. It rose much better and the crumb was far more aerated (while still retaining the tight matrix I want in a sandwich loaf).
A few thoughts on what may have happened to improve this one:
1) I used the starter at what I think was a slightly more optimal time—it was just past peak, nice and bubbly, smelling sweetly of booze and bananas. I don't think the difference in time was that great—it was maybe an hour or two, give or take—but who knows, maybe that did it.
2) I upped the hydration to just under 90%. In the past when I've been struggling that has sometimes helped my loaves rise a bit more during bulk, proof and bake.
It definitely rose a decent bit more during bulk, and it rose considerably better in the fridge overnight. I did not score it but I did mist it generously with water; I also misted the second baking pan I use as a lid for the first half of the bake. I always do that so I'm not sure that made much difference one way or the other.
Mini, I do cover the loaf in the fridge overnight. The first loaf may very well have been overproofed although I proofed it for just as long as this one and this one came out better so I'm not sure.
I'll keep playing around and post more followups here and share what I think I'm doing right (or wrong).
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Folks, just a further update. I upped the hydration slightly more—okay, I accidentally added just a bit *too* much so it ended up being over 90%—and that helped a great deal more. It rose very well during bulk and exceptionally during final proof overnight. As you can see it cracked a bit at the top near the end but otherwise I'm very happy. It's tall and full of air. I'll be playing around with slight variables to get it just right but overall it looks like my problem was mostly hydration. Thank you all for your help!
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Congrats on that last one, that is a big improvement. To me, the earlier ones looked gluey and I expect were quite dense to eat.
“ Shape. Bread pan. Rise in fridge about 8hr. Preheat oven to 500; slide in bread pan; drop to 415. Bake for half an hour covered with other bread pan; remove top bread pan and finish baking.”
I wonder if 500F isn’t too bot for a pan bread.
It would be interesting to see the results if your bread was baked @ 425F with no cover. All of your loaf images, the crust looks gelatinized pre-maturely. This could account for the ruptured crust.
Your latest crumb shot looks nice.