The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Ken Forkish Overnight blonde Fail on the tropic

xabiermirandona's picture
xabiermirandona

Ken Forkish Overnight blonde Fail on the tropic

HI I have read a lot about this on this forum but still have some doubts

 

I start reading all the book before going in the recipes. When I was ready I start with the overnight blonde. I have been baking for 1 year in my little restaurant. I use Emmnuel Hadjianndreu Book, How to make Bread and witha little tweaks I am baking nice white and whole grain boules.

The thing is I am not totally happy, I see others boules and mine seems ok but I want excelence not just ok boules.

But going on with the recipe. I feed my levain at 8:00 am, mix all the ingredients at 4:00 pm and here start the issues. When I mix the flour and water to autolyse I notice hydration was to hi, but I told myself not to tweak the recipe on the first try (That is usual mistake I make and end doing way too different form what the recipe call to do)

Then mix the salt and the levain fold for 1 and half our (4 folds), then I start doubting this was going to work ans my dough was definitely to wet.

I don't why, and if someone know please tell me, here in my country (El Salvador Central America) all the time I have to decrease hydration. I Think it may be something about flour but not totally sure. I use fortified white flour the same I use for bread usually and the same all traditional bakers (commercial yeast bakers) use on them recipe too

I don't really know if overnight bulk fermentation it's going to be long or short or maybe just fine as I have see this as a topic by itself. My kitchen temp is usually 22 to 24 degress at night yes my weather is usually hot so I am guessing bulk fermentation to me it's going to be shorter.

I may try lower hydration and come back with my expericence on two days, but if you ahve some suggestions be glad to hear them

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Forkish's overnight temp is 65 F / 18 C, as per page 66 of FWSY.

xabiermirandona's picture
xabiermirandona

Yes that would be my first tweak, but the hydration still is a mystery. I don't know why none of the recipes on any book I have try work with the hydration they mention.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

General rule: you can't use recipes "as is" (ie, exactly) from one country with another country's flour. Flour is just too different country to country.

You at least have to adjust hydration up or down. And it might not work at all.

xabiermirandona's picture
xabiermirandona

Yes also that is always been my belief. The thing is that ALways I adapt recipes and the result is not exctl what I ahve on Picture. I think I have to keep on tweak the recipes wbut my knowledge is all emperic so I don't feel that confident to change things

For example I never get the ear. My bread have good volum are roung taste good but when I sore it never get the ear. I get very few times I still don't get the reason why

 

Thanks for your interest

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Please post some pictures, and some people will probably jump in to help.

Please also describe your oven, electric, gas, fan (convection), where the heating elements are, top/bottom/back, your baking setup and method, stone, dutch oven, times, temps, etc.

Sometimes, lack of an ear is due to a too hot oven, or due to using an upper heating element. Upper heating elements can kill bread if not used correctly.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Problems with Forkish's timings are very, very common.

I think you have at least three challenges:  

First, Forkish tested his recipes in a much cooler climate than yours. Heat speeds up fermentation. To slow it down, use less pre-ferment and/or yeast and mix with cooler water. 

Second, you are in a more humid climate. This probably means your flour has a higher water content than when it leaves the mill. You need to decrease the water you use in the mix. I can't tell you how much. The way professional bakers work is to hold back some of the water when they start mixing and add more gradually, if they need to for the right dough consistency. Ideally, this adjustment is done in the initial mix for the autolyse. This means you need to have a good idea of the dough consistency you want.

The humidity may also influence your attempts to get an ear. I'm not sure. The scoring tutorial I wrote for TFL may help though. Here's a link: Scoring Bread: An updated tutorial This one may help too: Scoring Bread made with high-hydration dough

Third, the protein level of your flour will make a difference in how much water you should add. In general, a higher protein flour absorbs more water. Most U.S. West Coast bakers (other than for pizza/pasta/cakes, etc.) use flours with about 11.5% protein. If your flour has a lower protein content, you should add less water.

Hope that helps.

Happy baking!

David

xabiermirandona's picture
xabiermirandona

Well thank you a lot for your tieme an sharing some knowledge with me.

I always tweak the recipes but when I see the results I always think that is ok but  nos as I want. This is why this time I decide to do what Ken's said.

 

The white flour I use is this

 

Humidity, % Max. 14.5%

Ashes, % Max. 0.66%

Protein % 12.2 /13%

 

ingredients apart from Wheat

Micronutrients (Hierro, Niacina, Tiamina B1, Riboflavina B2, Acido Fólico)

Blanqueador (peróxido de Benzoilo)

Enzimas (Alfa Amilasa)

Oxidantes (Ácido Ascórbico, Azodicarbonamida ADA, Peróxido de Calcio)

The Whole flour is

Humidity, % 12.0 / 15.0

Ashes % 1.20 / 1.60

Protein % 12.0 / 14.0

 

The whole flour is not a real wholeflour is the white flour I send you mix it with bran (I know thi is not ccorrect but is what I have)

 

What is you opinion it could compare ith the flour there?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The protein content of the white flour is close to what I usually use. I'm not sure from your reply, but it looks like it has added enzymes (amylase) and ascorbic acid. These will accelerate fermentation and freeing of simple sugars from the starch. You really don't need that. It is enriched with vitamins. That's fine. I am bothered by it being bleached though. That's not good for flavor of the bread.

I assume the "Whole flour" is not really whole grain but is high-extraction. If "12.0/14.0" is the range of possible protein content, that is a very significant range. You will have to judge hydration by the dough consistency. Adding bran will make it absorb more water. You will also get a less open crumb.

Hope that helps.

David

xabiermirandona's picture
xabiermirandona

 

All the ingredients apart from Wheat they added in the mild so I couldn`t do anything about it 

 

Micronutrients (Iron, Niacin, Tiamin B1, Riboflavin B2, folic acid)

 

The Whole flour is not whole grain they just add bran to make it "whole"

 

Now I find this flour what do you think, it said "artisan" but that as we know in marketing mean nothing more than a word 

Ashes, % Max. 0.66

Humidity, % Max. 14.5

Proteín, % 11.8 / 13.0

This is just enriched with the vitamins, could be better for sourdough isn´t it?

Thanks for all your help David

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I agree. Those specifications are better than the other flours. The protein is lower, so it will absorb less water. Keep that in mind.

Happy to help.

David