Dough gets stickier when kneading
Hi all! First time posting ✌ I really need some help with my kneading of "quick" doughs (between 60-65% hydration and 0.01-0.014% dry yeast). Kneading should make a dough smooth and coherent. But when I knead, it gets stickier after about 7-10 minutes, up to the point where it sticks everywhere, to my hands and the countertop, and loses all coherence.
I know that some background info is always needed. So here we go:
I'm not a fully inexperienced baker (not nearly a pro at all). I've made dozens of sourdough and yeasted breads from a range of recipes online and in books. For example, I've worked through all the recipes from Flour Water Salt Yeast without any problems I could not solve with my understanding of the baking process. I've baked with different kinds of flour (all-purpose, whole wheat, rye, spelt) and with hydrations between 65% and 90%, and all this without major problems. These were all long-fermentation breads that developed with stretch and folds and little kneading except for sometimes some slap and fold-kneading.
However, as soon as I try to make a quick bread with dry yeast, that needs proper kneading instead of stretch and folds, I run into trouble.
I have made several attempts making quick, yeasted breads, using different recipes. I tried recipes from a book by Levine van Doorne (popular in the Netherlands), online recipes, and today a recipe from a book by the Dutch miller's guild. These recipes for quick breads recommend kneading between 15 and 30 minutes. I've looked up videos demonstrating kneading techniques, and I think I know how to do it. Just stretch it gently on the countertop, roll it back, quarter turn, repeat. But these quick breads always get stickier after 7-10 minutes of kneading, instead of more smooth and coherent.
As an example, the recipe I used today (from the miller's guild booklet):
250 gr wheat white flour, 250 gr whole wheat flour, 295 water (59%), 5 dry yeast (1%), 9 salt (1.8%), 10 butter (2%), 10 sugar (2%). Instructions: knead for 15 minutes, 25 minutes rise, pre-shape, 15 minutes rise, shape, 45 minutes rise, score, 10 minutes rise, bake.
At the start of kneading, everything is fine. I can stretch the dough, roll it back again and it is a little sticky yet possible to form into a ball. After about 8 minutes of kneading it seems to get wetter somehow. It sticks to the countertop (I think granite?), sticks to my hands, and it gets so slack that I can actually perform proper slap and folds, while it is a 60%-hydration dough! No matter how much longer I kneaded, the dough did not come together anymore - I continued until 30 minutes of kneading, hoping to see some results. Pulling a window pane was not possible - quick tearing. Later on, I was barely able to pre-shape and shape it. It was really under-kneaded. I've had some over-proofed sourdoughs before, and it somehow looked like that: a kind of weak, torn webbing at the surface. Even the just-mixed dough looked better.
I'm 100% sure that I'm properly following all these recipes. I weigh everything twice (once in a cup, then in the mixing bowl). I do all the temperature measurements (room, dough, ingrediënts), check both the ingredient weights ánd bakers formulae, etc. These things can't be the problem.
I tried to make a quick bread with minimal kneading twice before. It was 65% hydration and 0.02% dry yeast. I kneaded for only 4-5 minutes and resulted in a decent volume bread with somewhat evenly distributed air pockets. But the crumb was kind of grainy and the volume could have been bigger. That's why I want to improve the kneading and thereby the gluten development. But these breads were still better than those with longer kneading. So I'm convinced the kneading is the problem.
I know that over-kneading by hand is nearly impossible. I also found this thread, which did not really provided an answer: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/forums/general/challenges
I'm absolutely at a loss. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. It is infuriating, really.
I truly hope that someone knows what I'm doing wrong. Could it be that I get somewhat sweaty palms when kneading...? It's a desperate guess, but the only thing I can think of.
Thanks in advance for the help! And apologies for the overload of information. But I hope that helps.