The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Red Rye Malt

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

Red Rye Malt

I've bought some Red Rye Malt and ready to make some Borodinsky bread. In The Rye Baker's recipe Stanley recommends to toast the rye malt till it turns a "deep rose pink" and then grind them to make a flour. I bought these malted rye berries from a brewer's store and they look already toasted to me. When ground they do have a dark red colour. Do they look toasted to you and ready to be ground without having to toast them myself? 

Sorry the photo isn't very clear but you can see they certainly don't look un-toasted. 

I bought two kinds but I think it's the same thing. Stanley recommends Fawcett's Crystal Rye Malt but I also bought Simpson's because it actually says Red Rye Malt. I just think it's down to differences in terminology and not product. Fawcett's Crystal Rye Malt is also a deep red colour when ground. They look very similar to me. I bought 500g of each (it was very cheap so I bought a lot to make the postage worthwhile). Since one only uses about 25-50g per bread this is going to last me a very long time. Anyone in London who wants some it'll be my pleasure.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

I would be really curious how you get on with this. I have never actually used any malt (yet) so can't help you with your question.

As far as I understand, Russian Red Rye Malt undergoes some strange fermentation procedure after sprouting, do you know if these ones went through that too?

Regardless, I am sure using any rye malt will bring you very close to authentic taste of Borodinsky!

I wish I was in London!

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

I bought these online from The Malt Miller. A British company based in Swindon. They sell malts for brewing beer with very good prices and quick shipping. 

The Fawcett Crystal Rye Malt is one which comes recommended by The Rye Baker and he imports it from the UK. While I was browsing the site I came across Simpson's Malts Red Rye Crystal which in terminology atleast is a perfect match so bought 500g of that as well. They appear almost identical. 

I've made Borodinsky bread before with another make of Crystal Rye Malt and when ground it looks exactly like the photos of Red Rye Malt in Russian Recipes. 

I don't know if they've gone through the same fermentation process but something more has been done to them than just sprouted and dried. I'm thinking the Red Rye Malt used in bread is not just made for bread but rather it was another way to use the malt made for beer and these are exactly that. 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Indeed, I'm in Edinburgh! Thanks for the information, I'll consider ordering some malt from there. Hope you share your experience, and whether you prefer one or the other.

I see you got whole grains, how are you going to mill them? I heard just a food processor or pestle and mortar might work... I don't have a home mill, so want to make sure I'll be able to mill them. I assume you went for whole grains instead of crushed malt to preserve the flavour longer? Considering you need very little for Borodinsky I'd probably do the same if I can mill them myself.

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

Then you'll find it quick and easy to buy these. They ship very quickly. Let me try and track down which one is the closest to the red rye malt in Borodinsky bread and get back to you. I'm thinking the numbers on the packaging might tell us more about how it's malted and/or fermented. Right now I've got more then I know what to do with that's why I bought it whole as it'll keep a lot longer retaining its freshness and flavour. I'll grind them as I go in my coffee grinder which if done for long enough gets it very close to a flour. The Rye Baker talks of grinding them with a pestle and mortar so I suppose that's an option too although not as easy to grind it as fine I would think.

They're very cheap these malts. About £2 per Kg. You can choose to get the whole or crushed as I think when making beer they need to be crushed too but whole is better. 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thank you Abe, I'll look forward to your review and will order some for the next Borodinsky!

I have recently got a marble pestle and mortar which works wonders for quite difficult spices, so I am hoping it'll work for these too. Not sure how important it is to have the malt extremely finely ground, it'll be soaking in hot water for a while.

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

This is the Simpsons Red Rye Malt ground and normal rye flour ready for the scald.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Beautiful colour of the malt!

Are you adding caraway or coriander to the scald? It seems some recipes suggest that, and some - just in the final dough mix.

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

I've always done coriander till now and I too have seen differing opinions of when to add it in. The Rye Baker's recipe says toasted caraway or anise seed and for it to put into the scald. So I've gone for caraway and added it to the scald this time. 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Abe, has something happened to your account?

Anyway, thank you again for sharing the crystal malt with me, just started a Borodinsky now. But I have to say, neither a pestle&mortar, nor a food processor could really crush the malted berries properly! I got a mix of relatively fine powder and small bits that I used for the scald. I think next time I'll try to presoak them with the water needed for the scald, and then maybe the food processor would deal with them easier.

I have to say, even this substitute for fermented rye malt adds lovely aroma to the scald!

OldBoatMan's picture
OldBoatMan

Stanley Ginsberg's book suggests toasting rye malt.  That seems like a lot of extra work.  I too am looking for another option.  I have found North Georgia Still Company's Gambrinus Rye Malt in 1 pound packages on Amazon and it is an option that I will try.  I can grind that in my little Kitchen Aid spice and coffee grinder and use it directly from the grinder.  If my baking efforts are successful and I like the result, I can go to a larger size.

I am a retiree and a home baker.  Procuring rye flour products is challenging.  I do not use enough to justify buying bulk and the prices of smaller packages of rye flour are very expensive on a per pound basis.  I find that I can buy medium rye flour in bulk from a local co-op and from a local market -- Natural Grocer.  Rye meal (whole grain coarse ground rye flour) is also available on Amazon.  

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Toasting flour is a thing.  It increases flavor.

A friend recently informed me of toasting quinoa flour, which I intend to try soon.

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

Just want to make sure as ashey've got the colour of rye malt that already been toasted. He explained to toast them until they turn red. But they are red! 

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

He does suggest toasting that's why I was asking as these look more than just simply dried malted (sprouted) grain. He suggests toasting the malted grain 'till they turn red' (red rye malt) but when ground these do look like the deep dark red malt as in the recipe. Was wondering if there's anything I need to do to them other than just grinding into flour. 

Funnily enough these were very cheap. About £2 per kg. That's more than enough for many bakes when you think only 25-50g is typically used in one loaf. This will last me quite a while. Grinding them as you go is best. They'll last much longer. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

If it's already red, looks like you're good to go.

Dabrownman toasted his sprouted rye berries before grinding, and got what looks like your malt:  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27954/making-red-rye-malt

Then this guy: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/37222/borodinsky-supreme-old-school-100-rye

made the sexiest Borodinsky I've ever seen by following dabrownman's formula for red rye malt.

--

We have a couple Russian/Ukrainian stores locally which, IIRC, get some bread from Russian bakeries in Chicago.

Your and Ilya's posts are motivating me to visit them.

 

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

and Ilya's bake inspired me to revisit it. I once tried Dabrownman's recipe for malting rye but I'm scared of things going wrong and growing ergot. It turns out that buying red rye malt isn't so difficult. One just has to know where to look... Brewery Stores! Some time ago I bought crystal rye malt and it seemed to be the real deal and now I'm trying red rye malt and so far it appears to be the same. If one is slightly more red than the other it's only minor. Or perhaps there's a small difference in the process but so far there's no discernable difference. Very lovely dark red colour and smells beery. 

The rye sour is fermenting and the scald has been done. Final dough in the morning. When you visit them be sure to try the Borodinsky bread and hopefully you'll be inspired to try it yourself. Perhaps you can ask them for some red rye malt. 

 

albacore's picture
albacore

Crystal malts are made by a specific and unique process wherein the heating on the kiln is paused at a grain temperature of about 65C. There is still plenty of moisture in the grain and the amylases are highly active at this temperature, so they convert a lot of the starch to sugars. Once this conversion has taken place, kiln temerature is increased again until the malt reaches the desired colour and toffee-like flavour.

I would advise against re-roasting: the malt is already the right colour and has a good flavour. Also, because of the high sugar content in the grain, you run the risk of producing burnt sugar with associated unpleasant acrid flavours.

BTW, Rus brot has a Borodinsky recipe from the 1940s; I'm not sure how it compares to others.

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Interesting, thank you! Basically the same procedure as the scald, which is kept at 60°C for saccharinisation (is this a word? for the amylases to digests starch in the flour), so even if it has a different flavour profile than the Russian malt, I'm sure it'll fit nicely to the scalded rye flavour.

albacore's picture
albacore

A scald (tangzhong as well) heated to 60-65C where the amylolytic enzymes are active. The conversion process is known as saccharification - though I like your version!

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

That Borodinksy from 1940's has wheat flour in it, so it's a little different just because of that. And it's cool how he is mixing everything with a hand whisk until the final addition of flour, I didn't think of that. And he is dusting his workbench with rye flour, interesting.

And proving in a banneton upside down, like a wheat bread! I've only seen other people on YouTube just prove free-standing Borodinsky free standing on the baking tray. But that oven spring - wow!

BTW, I was surprised to see malt extract in the ingredients for the final dough - but actually in Russian it says патока - molasses (or treacle), which is consistent with other recipes.

 

Thank you for sharing this video, interesting, slightly different procedure!

albacore's picture
albacore

It seems that true red rye malt is produced by a somewhat different process to standard crystal malt; the sprouted grains are not kilned straight away, they are subjected to a lactic fermentation prior to kilning. I presume this will give more of a sour flavour to the malt compared to standard crystal malt, but I'm sure the crystal malt will still produce a great Borodinsky loaf!

You can get the Ukrainian version of the red rye malt here, (and proper shape bread tins!) but the postage cost makes it very pricey.

Interestingly, there used to be a British brewing malt called Dixons Enzymic Malt that was often used in small quantities in traditional English breweries. This too had undergone a lactic ferment prior to kilning. The kilning in this malt was very light to preserve the enzymes as much as possible. I remember tasting the malt and it did indeed have a sour flavour. The actual purpose of this malt was to increase diastatic activity in the mash tun and to lower mash pH.

Lance

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

Can I assume the Fawcett's Crystal Rye Malt is a very good substitute and it's basically the same thing just without the extra ferment? And the Simpson's Red Rye Malt is the real deal? It actually says Simpsons Malts Red Rye Crystal which is a bit confusing. 

The Rye Baker recommends Fawcett's and imports it from the UK but when looking for it I also found Simpsons so bought a bag of that too. 

I got confused somewhat as it looked good to go with no extra toasting needed but The Rye Baker says to toast it in his recipe. Granted he mentions the Fawcett rye malt as the one he uses and to toast the malt in the recipe in different places but I would assume he's using the very same thing. 

The one I'm using in the photos above is the red rye malt. But I've used crystal rye and it looks very similar. I can only assume the difference is in the taste.

albacore's picture
albacore

Abe, I'm pretty sure there will be no lactic ferment with either malt; they are both crystal malts, made by a similar process, but there is a bit of colour difference between them:

Simpsons: 237-310 EBC

Fawcetts: 125-250 EBC

As you can see from the wide range, producing this kind of malt is not an exact science!

Lance

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

Thanks for that Lance. Lots to learn. I thought the term Red Rye Crystal was open to debate. Terminology strikes again. 

Which rye malt do you use in your bread? 

albacore's picture
albacore

When I made the Monastery bread, I made my own rye malt, but that was relatively easy, being a standard lightly kilned one.

I don't think you can easily make your own true red rye alt at home, as you need to maintain some quite high temperatures (higher than I would be happy letting my proofing box go to) for several days.

I am tempted to have a go at a Borodinsky style rye, so I would probably follow you route and get some Simpsons crystal rye.

Though I have just found another Ebay listing...... Haven't translated it yet!

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

It says fermented rye malt, so sounds right!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

since you are going to go 4-5 days, especially with rye berries, there is lactic acid fermenting going on after day1.  This why you can make a rye starter in 4 days.  I the problem I have always encountered is that the berries are likely to start a white mold after day 5.  There is so much sugar being created by the malting fermentation/enzyme processes, that if there is any acid resistant mold spores around they will start growing and loving all that sugar you just created.

When I am malting using my preferred cheese molds that at 4 inches deep with holes in the bottom it is a snap to 'wash/rinse' the berries as they ferment. Professional malters usually have piles of berries 1'-3' deep and that causes them other problems we don't deal with.  Their problem is that the fermentation process causes heat to build up, in these deep piles of berries, that can get so high, it will kill of the wee beasties doing all that great malting work.  So they turn over the piles, several times a day with shovels, to keep the temperature down.

The main difference between professional and home malting is the higher temperatures that professionals have to deal with to keep low but these higher temperatures make the 'browning' process, caused by the greater fermentation temperatures, to speed up and get the grain darker faster so when they dry the malt, they can do it a lower temperature and still get that dark color after milling - but the malt is non diastatic when finished.

So, now I use a heating pad to get the temperatures higher but not so high that it kills off the fermentation/enzyme process going on with the malting.  The resulting malt is darker after fermenting hut it still need to be browned in the oven to get the darker colors.  It has killer flavor.

It is as close as I can get at home to what a pro would do. But there is always  fermentation going in when malting enzyme process even at room temperature - without fermentation happening we woiuld not have SD at all:-)

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

When we make a starter it begins to ferment from day one so logically when making rye malt it is fermenting as it sprouts. But that should also mean crystal rye malt is also fermented. Perhaps the differences are in the details and only minor. One is fermented at a slightly different temperature, or for longer, then dried and heat treated at a slightly different temperature. But we're splitting hairs here. What we have at the end of the day is basically near enough the same thing. 

I've been thinking a long time about following your home made red rye malt. My biggest concern is getting it wrong and growing ergot. I do love a nice Borodinsky bread but I'll feel better if i know it's been malted professionally. 

Nice to have you back Dabrownman. 

albacore's picture
albacore

The amount of red rye malt in most recipes is pretty small, so any variations in its flavour aren't going to have a massive effect. Most recipes seem to be about 5% of total flour.

@ Ilya, what is the translation of муки ржаной обойной? Google has it as rye flour, wallpaper grade!

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

It's a kind of rye flour - whole rye. I think the name comes from the way the grains are milled, and has nothing to do with wallpaper (although there is likely a historic reason for this reuse of the word, but it is very difficult to explain in English!).

 

Strictly speaking, it's not exactly the same as just whole rye - apparently, обойная мука has around 96% of bran relative to 100% in whole rye, but the particle size there is more uniform? According to this website https://www.edlinhleb.ru/articles/rzhanaya-muka-kakaya-byvaet-i-v-chyom-raznitsa/

albacore's picture
albacore

Thanks Ilya, that website is useful. It looks like home milled rye grain through a coarse sieve will be a good match for the wallpaper grade!

Lance

albacore's picture
albacore

Ilya, please could you tell me what is the translation in this recipe:

ПАРА (до полного созревания при 28-29С, 2,5 - 3 часа):

- 349 г. – заварки (всю);
- 175 г. – закваски (100 г. муки 75 г. воды);
- 140 г. – воды;
- 180 г. – ржаной муки.

заварки (всю) is coming out as tea leaves!

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

It says ОПАРА - preferment. Then:

Preferment (until fully mature at 28-29°C, 2.5-3 hrs):

349g scald (all)

175 g levain/starter (100g flour, 75 g water)

140 g water

180 g rye flour

 

Заварка literally means "brew" - both in the context of tea (then it means tea leaves or strong tea you dilute before drinking), and in the context of bread making, meaning scald. So all these weird mistranslations have a reason!

albacore's picture
albacore

Many thanks! I recently made a malt loaf that had cold tea in the recipe, so anything is possible!!

Lance

suave's picture
suave

I've tried both Fawcett and Simpsons malts.  They are very similar in color to each other and significantly lighter than the Russian stuff.  That difference, however, is not critical.

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

They do look very similar it's just the wording that differs. But as you say it's not critical. Only a small amount is used. 

suave's picture
suave

Oh, you probably would have noticed the difference if you compared it to the bread made with proper Russian malt.  And you would have definitely noticed it in a bread that does not rely on adjunct coloring and sugar as much as Borodinskiy.

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

And compare. But not before I've used up 500g of the Simpson's Malts Red Rye Crystal I've started. Going to take me a while! In the meantime if you know of any good places that will ship to London let me know.

suave's picture
suave

There's an Ukrainian seller on ebay who's offering it, but I haven't seen or used his stuff, so I can't really say how good it is. 

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

I'll take a look. Got some time to look around. Perhaps as an option I could go into one of many eastern European shops near me and ask them if they can get hold of it. 

Yippee's picture
Yippee
Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

Just got to the point where he compares crystal rye to red rye in order to point to the difference however the malt I've been using looks much closer to the red rye than crystal rye. I suppose there will be degrees when it comes to colour but I'm thinking the one I'm using isn't far off the real deal. 

Thank you for the link Yippee. 

Edit: so one can rehydrate, ferment and dehydrate the malts again? Very interesting!!!! Just read your forum post and it looks very well done. You've given me something to think about. 

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

As I started late and was running out of time. But the taste is superb. I've gotten a better crumb before but this is the best tasting one. Dense but soft with a flavour that's very more-ish. 

Excuse the bad photography. Using my tablet which doesn't have the best camera. Looks far nicer than the weird colour it's come out in the photo. 

I'm definitely doing a repeat but I'll start earlier in the day. This is one very tasty bread. 

albacore's picture
albacore

I'm definitely going to try this.

 

Lance

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

It does look dense but believe me it's soft and delicious. It's not the in your face flavour of a tangy wheat sourdough with lots of add-ins but there's something about it which makes you want more and you find yourself reaching for another slice. It's flavourful and Ilya is right and it'll complement everything. I've eaten my quota of bread today but I want more! 

Looking forward to your bake. 

So far I've tried coriander and caraway. Both are good but I think I prefer toasted ground caraway. Taste is subjective anyway but my recommendation is toasted ground caraway. 

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

According to the Russian video, which Yippee kindly directed us to, the main difference between the two malts is that red rye is fermented and while crystal rye is also red it lacks the fermentation. 

Why not ferment the crystal rye after the fact? We need the red rye in the scald to bring out the flavour. Why not create a separate starter with crystal rye flour and ferment it? When mature use that in the scald (which will kill off the fermentation but it was done for flavour anyway) and use the normal rye starter in the recipe to ferment the dough?

Borodinsky Recipe: in a nutshell

  • Prepare starter (100% hydration rye) and scald (rye + malt flour and not water) the night before.
  • Add the starter to the scald. 
  • To the pre-ferment add the rest of the dough ingredients

Proposed alternative: 

Build a 100% crystal rye flour starter over a few feeds and ferment till fully mature. Taking into account of how much flour and water in the crystal rye starter put together a scald and at the same time build a normal rye starter. Then add the starter to the scald etc...

What's the worst that could happen? You get a Borodinsky bread as if you've just used crystal rye. Alternatively you get the fermented rye flavour of red rye. 

Yes a sourdough bread is fermented anyway but not to the extreme of a starter! Perhaps this in coax out more flavour. 

 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

Abe,

The Rye Baker Borodinsky recipe is delicious (see my 2 posts), but it doesn’t use red rye malt. Stanley Ginsberg substitutes toasted and ground malted rye. These are very different processes. 

That aside, I regularly use the faux RRM in many breads, not just Borodinsky.  If it says “crystal” in the brewing context this has been malted, then roasted, but likely not as dark a roast as would be used in the Ginsberg recipe. 

SoniaR's picture
SoniaR

Can anyone sum up this thread for someone who would like to make a Borodinsky rye with red rye malt and lives in the U.S.? I've tried ordering it from New York Bakers but the order won't go through and my two emails questioning why were never answered. I don't want to make my own. What are my options including maybe settling for less than red rye malt? Thanks for any input!

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

I found that the proper fermented Red Rye Malt is available on ebay, even two brands, a Russian and a Ukrainian one. I ordered some of the Ukrainian brand today (just a bit cheaper than the Russian one, no special reason otherwise). It might take a while to arrive, I'll report back how it goes.

Assuming it gets delivered fine, I'll have a spare bag of it, does anyone in the UK want one?

SoniaR's picture
SoniaR

Just yesterday I tried the New York Bakers site again and this time was able to send my order through, so I hope to get the Fawcetts in a few days. I'm excited to try it!

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Nice, hope you share the results! That's the malt I have been using instead of the real deal, and it smells so nice. Crystal Rye appears to be the closest thing you can get to the real deal.

The original fermented malt is supposed to be darker and even more flavourful, but you'll get delicious bread with Fawcett's too.

albacore's picture
albacore

This is the Ebay Russian one - bought before Christmas, but not opened or used yet. I figured 300g would do me 6 bakes - enough for starters!

 

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Perfect, that's the other one I was considering. You should do some scalded bread with this, Borodinsky for example.

albacore's picture
albacore

Yes, the Borodinsky I think, but which recipe? Ginsberg Ananda Rus1 Rus2 Beets & Bones Eatalready?

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

The last one is the recipe I saw here on TFL, and used before (without CY). That's great, and I think it I repeated it with better temperature control it would be even better.

The I've before last looks good, but slightly modified (never heard of spelt in Borodinsky, but don't see why not).

Both Rus's versions will be great and authentic, just a little different.

Ananda's recipe looks good too, although I'm surprised molasses go into the scald (note s comment in my recent blog entry, don't use molasses, make extract is the right substitute for "патока").

What is the Ginsberg recipe?

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Found Ginsberg's recipe - that looks good, but I am surprised he is using medium rye flour for the scald and the sponge... And then doesn't add any flour to the scald-sponge? And no "molasses"? I don't know, there are so many versions of Borodinsky, I guess one has to try a few to decide what they like!

albacore's picture
albacore

Ilya, have you had a look at https://bvallejo.livejournal.com/ ?

Several recipes there. Change the search language to Russian and search for Бородинского

I guess they're all going to be pretty similar at the end of the day. I think I'll go with the Eatalready one but with malt extract - unless you find a better one!

 

Lance

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Haven't seen it before, thanks! I only found one recipe there that uses some specific German starter (Sekowa Spezial-Backferment), but otherwise looks good to me. It does say it was adapted to that starter somehow though.

Good choice! That's definitely a good recipe. I've used it before. I just omitted the commercial yeast, and I think if I warmed up the dough above room temperature it would work even better.

The only thing is, even in those pictures you can tell the crumb is a little wet. Easiest partial solution is to reduce the water (second time I baked it I reduced the extra water normally used for yeast, and the crumb was less sticky). But fermentation at higher temperature should also help with that.

I'm assuming it's the same as here, since pictures are the same and it's from the same person: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/37222/borodinsky-supreme-old-school-100-rye

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

You are doing some deep research Lance! I've seen a couple of these, but they all link to each other, looks like a few Russian emigrants baking their childhood bread. Breads look good though!

Check this out, found Yippee's comment in Rus's video with the link: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/57343/20180909-rus-brots-borodinsky-1940

albacore's picture
albacore

Unboxing (or unbagging?) of my Russian red rye malt (Solod). On the left is some red malt from Bakery Bits as a comparison.

The Solod has an interesting flavour - sour, bitter, slightly burnt biscuit like black malt.

 

And here is the start of the brew piece - 35g solod, 84g rye and 230g water at about 75C to achieve a mash temperature of 66C at which temperature it will stay for 5.5 hours.

 

Lance

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Wish I could buy it here too. How much is it, Lance, if you don't mind me asking?

Yippee

albacore's picture
albacore

I paid 16USD from a listing on Ebay UK, Yippee, but I see it's available on Ebay.com from a different seller - and only 13USD!

Is there some problem getting items shipped from Russian Federation to USA?

 

Lance

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Usually is hefty, though I haven't checked this listing.

Yippee

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Yip: have you looked for local Russian stores to see if they have it?

Yippee's picture
Yippee

I'll check. Thx.

Yippee

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

I don't know what kind of stuff one finds in Russian stores over there, but it's a very specialist ingredient.

Ordering from ebay might be easier, and ordering the other brand from Ukraine that is also available might be easier regarding delivery (that's the on I got recently, but still need to use it - https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-pcs-x-300gram-Solod-Rye-malt-Especially-for-bread-makers/333508038781?hash=item4da6a0d07d:g:Go8AAOSw4gxbQRXU)

Yippee's picture
Yippee

are what they sell, as far as I remember. It's probably a long shot finding red rye malt there.😄 But knowing that I can always make my own, I have no worries. 

Yippee

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Well, if there is no malt, get the dumplings! Serve with sour cream and/or butter, and fresh dill. Delicious. (our family non-traditional version is sour cream with soy sauce!)

Also, they might have Borodinsky bread, but I am sure you can bake a much better one yourself, especially after you get the red rye malt!

lunarspace's picture
lunarspace

Hi everyone. I've embarked on a journey of baking a soviet-era Russian bread recently. Inevitably, I had to learn about red rye malt. This thread was very helpful in that regard. Thank you!

Just wanted to share my recent find on the difference between the crystal toasted malt and the fermented one. Very informative. It also provides directions on how to ferment at home! The original is in Russian. Here is the translated version.

albacore's picture
albacore

 Good luck with holding it at 65C for 3 days and 80C for 2 days!

Your electricity bill will probably approach the cost of buying the proper article off Ebay!

 

Lance

lunarspace's picture
lunarspace

It's not that bad actually. I've got Brod & Tailor bread proofer with temp range of 21–90C. I'll give it a shot.

He raised the acidity of the malt with lactic acid to help with the process. Lactic acid came from KMKZ which stands for concentrated lactic acid starter culture. I haven't heard about that type of culture. It seems I just opened up a new bread making dimension for myself :)

Yippee's picture
Yippee

i.e., concentrated lactic acid sourdough.  I like it so much that I threw out all my traditional sourdough starters and only use CLAS as a sourdough flavor enhancer.  You will be surprised how easy it is to improve the taste of bread with CLAS.  It is so powerful and versatile, yet so effortless to maintain and simple to use.  I encourage you to seriously check it out.

Yippee

Abe's picture
Abe

I've used CLAS before and while it's ok I didn't feel the need to keep one going as keeping a starter was just as easy with more flavour. Sourdough is very effortless to maintain while CLAS is very specific without much flexibility. If one is finding sourdough complicated then it's being done incorrectly. 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

each make us happy in their unique ways. I not only love CLAS, but I also admire Rus, the mastermind behind CLAS. When you introduced his bread to me, I still remember I fell in love with it at first sight. That moment was the crossroads where I embarked on my joyous baking journey. I am very proud of making delicious bread for my friends and family with CLAS, but I could not have done it without Rus. For this, I am forever grateful to him.

Gosh, this sounds like a declaration of  for Rus!

 

Yippee

suave's picture
suave

"mastermind behind CLAS"

CLAS has been known since at least the 80's.