The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

My Approachable Loaf

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

My Approachable Loaf

The Bread Collective Lab at Washington State University is actively working with bakers and students on developing an affordable and accessible Approachable whole wheat sandwhich bread. 

 

members of the Bread Collective Lab must meet these requirements for The Approachable. (I have omitted the requirements regarding pricing)

  • is baked in a tin and sliced
  •  contains no more than seven ingredients.
  • contains no non-food.
  • is at least 60% whole wheat—preferably 100%

 

coincidently, I’ve transitioned to whole grain bread baking because, while I do love my artisan boules baked at 475° in a super hot cast-iron pot, it takes too much muscle to slice the loaves!

 

My approachable Whole WheatNo Nut Date bread, made with wild yeast, has 7 ingredients. It was a huge hit at my mah-jongg game today :-)

 

Move over wonder bread. it’s about time!

do you have an approachable loaf?

 

 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

So I read the NY Times article and am a little confused.  Those of us who make lean 100% whole wheat breads seem to satisfy the less than 7 ingredients  ( I only use 4 ) and no non foods.  The part that has me puzzled is the bake in tins and sliced.  I make bread at least once a week, usually in a DO, and when it comes out I slice it,  using an electric slicer.    On occasion I have used the same process and ingredients, and baked it in a tin, and sliced that as well.  So to me,  any whole wheat loaf that you could have baked as a rustic loaf could be baked in a tin and qualify.

My guess is that when they say approachable, they mean it should have the fluffy texture of Wonder Bread - is that the goal?  If so,  I normally fail to meet that,  but have made Jasons Ciabatta , using whole wheat in a pan, and it comes out pretty light. Since it is to be used as sandwich bread,  I assume they don't want large holes ,  which is not a problem using 100% whole wheat.

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

Barry,

From my reading, one of the primary aims of the project is to lure parents and their kids away from Wonderbreads.  Retaining the form factor of sandwich bread lowers the acceptance barrier.  Seems a sensible strategy for a worthy objective.

Tom

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Tom,  I agree it is a desirable goal, but what has me stumped is can't any recipe that otherwise qualifies be made in a pan?  While I normally don't bake in a pan,  I have done in many times, and don't change the recipe or process any. 

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

I can only assume the deities @ KA and WSU have their rules about formulae that are and are not appropriate for pan baking.  I agree – I've baked hearth formulae in pans (rarely vice versa) without any tweaks with no surprise outcomes.  In fact, the KA "Just Bread" pan formula looks a lot like a hearth formula we often bake at home, minus the yeast, honey and oil.  In fact, I see no reason why a 66% ww formula needs honey and oil.  Or yeast for that matter.

Tom

HansB's picture
HansB

Unlike simply baking our SD bread in a tin their formula includes honey and oil, something that not many of us use in our SD bread. What I get is that they want a good tasting, soft, sliced sandwich loaf made with whole wheat and just a few ingredients that would appeal to the masses.

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

I think the collective has an understanding, that to reach the masses, wean them from wonderbread and other "empty foods", and help people move to an appreciation of whole grain food, being hard line about bread is not going to get it done. That compromise is in order. That does not invalidate the beautiful artisan bread that these bakers or you or I are making. So they have  just a few hard line rules about this bread. I greatly appreciate this approach. The more I bake and the more I participate in different forums, I grow weary of purists. "If you add a little yeast you cannot call it sourdough." Actually in this country there are no laws about that but in France there are and it say that up to 0.25% yeast is allowed and it still can be called "levain bread". Or purism about "sticking to bread like it used to be". The reality that bread like it used to be probably stunk. Flour quality was poor and availability limited. It was probably hard, filled with fillers and overall not very tasty. Our understanding of bread, wheat and methods continues to evolve and we should embrace it in my mind. Purism turns people away rather than inviting people in. 

Why should we be negative about this approach? I think it is brilliant. And in fact made my first try at this, a variation on the KA recipe. 70% of a mix of white WW and a soft whole wheat (white sonora). The rest was AP flour. I made 2 loaves, one using tangzhong with 5% of the flour. The tangzhong rose better and is a bit softer. I will know later this week if it increases shelf life. At breakfast 6 of us devoured half of each loaf. 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

 WooWoo, your comments echo my thinking. Thanks for expressing so eloquently.

Diane

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Woo Woo, your idea to incorporate a tangzhong  is a great one. I am preparing to tweak the Approachable Loaf formula right now. Probably too late for today, the wheels are in motion.

Please talk more about your tangzhong. How are you handling the honey and oil? I am thinking that the tangzhong  may make the oil unnecessary. What do you think? Elaborate more...

A thought. What about using an oat tangzhong in order to reduce some/all of the honey?

Danny

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

To be honest, I had never tried it before and wanted to try it. I did it with water, not milk. I riffed off the KA recipe with plain olive oil rather than vegetable oil because that is all I had. I made one loaf with Tangzhong and one without, but the ingredients were identical. In the proof, the one without Tangzhong reached max proof by the poke test sooner and at less height, even though it was the second loaf  I mixed. The Tangzhong loaf was higher and more open and airy. If I could attach pictures i could show. I used yeast at 0.25%, which was a bit less than the KA recipe. Bulk was about 2 hours, same for proof at 74 degrees. We could not perceive a difference in taste between the tangzhong/non Tang loaves. I am interested in whether it makes a difference in shelf life. I have slice both remaining halves and have them in plastic. I used a mix of hard and soft wheats for the whole wheat. My next try will be to just use a hard white wheat, but everything else the same using the tangzhong method. I am going to try to be disciplined and only change one thing at a time. I will say both loaves were incredibly moist and tender. Really a perfect sandwich loaf texture. 

Once I get the wheat profile down i will try to take out the oil. Oat tangzhong sounds interesting. Have you tried that?

I do want to stick to the rules in number of ingredients and also it has to be economical which means easy to make and low cost ingredients. The soft wheat I used is not cheap so in the long run if I use a soft wheat, it will be a generic soft wheat flour. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Oats are known to make a bread sweeter. Not sweet like sugar, just a mellow sweet that has to be discerned to be noticed.

I used the suggested 8% honey, but I didn’t detect any real sweets notes in the flavor profile. It may have offset any bitterness that whole wheat can produce.

I've used Tangzhongs before. Actually, it was utilized for Maurizio’s Oat Porridge CB. Your idea deserves experimentation. 

The ability to exchange ideas make the forum format ideal, IMO. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Oats are known to make a bread sweeter. Not sweet like sugar, just a mellow sweet that has to be discerned to be noticed.

I used the suggested 8% honey, but I didn’t detect any real sweets notes in the flavor profile. It may have offset any bitterness that whole wheat can produce.

I've used Tangzhongs before. Actually, it was utilized for Maurizio’s Oat Porridge Sourdough CB. Your idea deserves experimentation. 

The ability to exchange ideas make the forum format ideal, IMO. 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

WSU wants to incentivize bakeries across the country to bake wholesome breads That will appeal to main stream consumers Who buy pre-sliced sandwich bread loaded with additives ...even when it states on the package label “whole grain”. A maximum of seven ingredients makes it efficient for bakeries by cutting down on time and cost.

For sure, artisan bread Formula can be converted to “approachable”. that’s what I did with my recipe, baked it in a tin, lowered the temperature, even eliminated initial steaming. It is a most enjoyable bread, hardy (80% ww), great flavor profile with an excellent crumb (I soaked the whole wheat flour for two hours), as good as tangzhong, easy to slice...a keeper.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Diane, what was the reason for eliminating the steam? I’m curious.

I am not very knowledgeable with bread in pans.

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

Free form boules and baguettes which are baked on preheated stones require steam for oven spring. Maybe it's the extreme dry heat that needs to be balanced with steam?

Bread baked in preheated covered cast iron pots in very high heat entrap the moisture and hence have oven spring.

Bread baked in pans have 5 sides encased and the oven temperature may start at 425 and then lowered to 375, so the loaves do not require steam for oven spring.

this is just based on my experience and observations.

suave's picture
suave

Basically, they look at what "craft" brewers did to the beer market, that is flooding it with expensive beers brewed in very limited variety of styles with over-reliance on a single taste component, and try to steer bakers away from that path.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

"Bread has to be square slices."

"Breakfast has to be eaten from a bowl."

Murray Lender did a bagel commercial about that, where he puts a bagel in a bowl and says "Here ya go."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wIr3MGjFws

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

For sure, bread loaves can be long, fat, skinny, round, rectangular, or square. For sandwiches, I go as far as using my Pullman pan because, by golly, I like my sandwich filling to have substance.... and

it's hard to do when ya get to end of a beautiful round loaf ;-)

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Tom suggested featuring the Approachable Bread for our next CB. It is a novel idea.

 Their goal of a bread that is more enticing for the average citizen and that is a large percentage of WW, no non-food additives, no more than 7 ingredients, and baked in a pan is a noble one. The CB will not feature a specific formula or process, but will endeavor to follow their guidelines. Of course any bakers that want to bake freeform breads are fine.

I think The Food Lab’s project is a great idea and hopefully many bakers will agree and participate in the Community Bake.

Danny

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

Dan, you are spot on in your understanding the intent of the Approachable Bread. For us noble home bread bakers, anything goes, shape, size, pan, ingredients.  In fac,t I am going to take a great leap into making my own sprouted flour ... once I nail sprouting   ;-)

Can you tell me more about the Community Bake?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Diane, take a look at this post. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61187/list-past-and-present-community-bakes

The Community Bake concept was born with the desire to share a kitchen with fellow bakers in home kitchens around the would. It starts with a central goal, generally to bake a specific formula and feature a special baker. The “kitchen sharing” is done cyber style. We upload images, and document the good, bad, & ugly of our bakes in hopes of sharing and learning to better bake with others. Many bakers have benefited greatly from the CBs.

I hope to you see you participate in the upcoming event. It will probably start next weekend, Feb. 28.

Danny

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

Danny, count me in.  Looks like my timing is good... next week.

HansB's picture
HansB

I'm in Danny.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Not so hard as to be daunting. Yet challenging enough to be fun!

Scootsmcgreggor's picture
Scootsmcgreggor

Is there also a sugar limit for the Approachable project? I ask because you increase nutrition with WW, though if you add a bunch of sugar you potentially counteract all of the nutritive benefits of the WW. We may distinguish between different types of sugar, though our bodies do not. Honey, date, maple, it’s all sucrose, fructose, and glucose. If that’s not a current criteria, at least for the community bake it might be an interesting criteria to consider?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Scoots, there are no limits that I am aware of for ingredients in The Approachable Loaf. But it seems sourdough will not tolerate too much sugar. And the purpose of this type of bread is to bake nutritious good tasting bread for the average citizen. Here is a link to a formula used at The Food Lab for this bread. They show 8% sugar and also they supplement the sourdough with a little yeast in the final mix. My bread will not be a hybrid (no commercial yeast). But for others, that is fine.

Keep in mind that each baker has the ability to design their own formula and process. They set very basic guidelines and goals without being very restrictive.

suave's picture
suave

How do you increase nutrition with WW?

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

1. By using as high a percentage as possible.

2. By using it as soon as possbile after milling.  Not necessarily milling at the bakery, but perhaps getting it directly from a miller.

 

suave's picture
suave

I am afraid I did not express myself clearly.  My question was - what makes WW more nutrtious?   As in so much more that it becomes a must.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

There are countless ways to enhance the nutritional value of whole wheat breads. Addins like seeds and nuts are the first that come to mind.  I consider honey very healthy.

The Bread Lab’s guidelines stipulate “no non-food ingredients”. Ascorbic Acid would definitely be a no, no. :D

When the CB is posted, I will place links to The Bread Lab with pages that deal with their Affordable Bread Project. I will also try to summarize their basic goals for such a bread. Anyone is welcomed to join in. And they can bake any bread they wish, but the goals are bread for the average citizen. One that is soft, sliced, affordable (<$6), and baked in a pan so that the sliced bread maintains an appearance that is familiar to the consumer. If the bread is ultimately successful, young children will want to eat it.

This CB will depart from our typical artisan sourdough breads. And for good reason... what better time to attempt to introduce or friends, neighbors, and anyone else to the natural breads of generations gone by?

Dan

Scootsmcgreggor's picture
Scootsmcgreggor

Suave I read your question a different way. Were you asking how does WW increase nutrition? If so, the biggest increase is in fiber content. Fiber intake is below the USDA recommended daily intake for 75% if Americans. Fiber is s essential to gut health, reduces risks of many gastrointestinal cancers, regulates sugar uptake by the body, and reduces cholesterol levels. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Good point about the nutritional value of various parts of the wheat berry, Scoots.

The germ of the wheat berry is also a super food. 

A wheat berry consist of 3 main components.

  1. bran
  2. germ
  3. endosperm

 

From Wikipedia
In terms of the parts of the grain (the grass fruit) used in flour—the endosperm or protein/starchy part, the germ or protein/fat/vitamin-rich part, and the bran or fiber part—there are three general types of flour. White flour is made from the endosperm only. Brown flour includes some of the grain's germ and bran, while whole grain or wholemeal flour is made from the entire grain, including the bran, endosperm, and germ. Germ flour is made from the endosperm and germ, excluding the bran.

 

The reason commercial white flour has all germ removed is because the fats that are contained within it will go rancid in a short time, reducing the shelf life of the flour.

As you mentioned the bran contains large amounts of fiber. It is completely removed from commercial white flour because it is bulky (large particles) and also makes the flour noticeably browner is color. Today’s average consumer prefers super bright white flour.

suave's picture
suave

Myhrvold , in Modernist Cuisine, says that all fiber claims are a bunch of baloney.  And explains why.

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

having read that from Myrhold, what he says is that the evidence is not there ... yet. I do not believe that the word baloney is used anywhere. He also looks mostly at the nutrient claims, not at issues of fiver and cancer protection or overall benefits of eating more protein in bread. 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

I've read what Myhrvold has had to say regarding bread in the 11/16/17 article "Whole Wheat is no healthier than white bread, food scientists claim... and it may actually be worse for you."

After researching and writing his latest tome, Modernist Bread, Myhrvold postulates many new findings.

I suppose there's no arguing Myhrvold's facts, unless, of course, it's all baloney.

 

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

It is true that the evidence that whole grain improves health outcomes is hard to come by. There are animal studies that show enhanced absorption of minerals and b vitamins with whole grains.  To do a real study comparing health outcomes of whole grain vs white flour is almost impossible. The effects probably take too long to manifest and the pervasiveness of white flour makes long term studies impossible. Too much "crossover". Remember though that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. And there are certain things about whole wheat that are known. 

1. More fiber and there is excellent evidence that a diet higher in fiber reduces colon cancer.

2. More evidence is emerging that supports the idea that whole grains reduce glucose spikes after eating but this may be complex and related to an individuals but bacteria. 

2. More protein, an essential part of our diet, and even more important in vegetarian diets. About 2/3 of wheat protein is bioavailable to us, but most of it is removed in white flour. 

3. It is less wasteful. The process of making white flour removes about 45% of the whole grain. Can we really afford to waste 45% of a product that is hard to grow, and may get harder?

4. Simple stone milling can be done on a small scale. Industrial roller milling has limited application beyond big mills. 

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

I will go with the notion that bread, with no nonfood modern-day ingredients, is wholesome and healthy!  

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

the guidelines are in the article. It limits to 7 ingredients, >60% whole wheat and no "non food" ingredients. Sugar is not prohibited. Again, the goal is not to make a healthy loaf per se. It is to make a predominantly whole wheat loaf that is approachable for generations weaned on supermarket bread. A little sweetener, just like fat retains moisture. Because the other requirement is that the shelf life is 7 days or more. Even good sourdough bread doesn't make that unless you toast it. 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

I always thought about whole wheat flour similarly to Peter Reinhart’s thinking, ” Whole wheat flour, as I understood it, meant that when the wheat kernels go into the mill, all of their components get ground into flour: 100% in, 100% out.” (BREAD REVOLUTION (p. 158),

 

 But that’s not apparently how it works. Mills sift/extract out, TWICE, the bran and the germ for white flour.  And then add back the bran and germ, to make whole wheat flour.

 

according to Peter’s expert resource, Craig Ponsford, “ once it’s separated and added back it’s somehow different. Something changes, and we don’t get all of the nutritional benefits. It doesn’t perform the same weight in baking either, or tastes good, and it also doesn’t keep as well.“

 

 

While whole wheat flour is certainly more nutritious than white flour, I feel like I’ve been duped by misinformation or omission of information. Either way, I intend to mill my own whole-grain flour.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I just this week contacted King Arthur about this very thing.

Here is a copy of our correspondence.

/// begin message

Me

Is King Arthur Premium 100% Whole Wheat Flour 100% extraction? 

 

What is the shelf life of this flour? 

 

King Arthur

Yes, our 100% Whole Wheat Flour is 100% extraction. Like all whole grain flours it contains the germ and oil so it should be stored no longer than one year airtight in a cool, dry place. Freeze for best freshness and extended use.

 ///end message 

 

But I think every home will agree. If you can afford a home mill and have room to store it, there is no better way to bake with a better flour. Unless, maybe you are fortunate enough to have an artisan grain miller nearby. Having ultimate control over the flour, from berry to wheat adds another exciting dimension to baking bread.  

 

This reply made me think about another set of questions for King Arthur.   

///message 

Me
We are discussing w(ole wheat flour on TheFreshLoaf. Com forum. What type of grain mill does KA use for their whole grain flour? Roller Mill, Stone Mill? Does KA own the mill that grinds the whole wheat? Would you happen to have an image?

 

King Arthur

 

We do not own the many mills that mill our flour across the country and they are roller mills. Here are links to blogs on our farmers. I don't think we have any mill pictures:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/tag/our-farmers
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/about/history

 

///end message 

 

In my opinion, this is a must read.
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/about/history

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

If you have a smaller regional mill that stone mills, you can get WW flour without any of what you describe. Better yet, buy a mockmill and mill your own. When I need 200 gram of whole wheat flour, i measure out 200 gm of wheat berries and grind it. 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

that’s good news about KS WW flour.

so Dan, have you been looking into sprouted wheat flour? That’s been on my agenda as well :-)

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I sprouted wheat once, but never got around to doing it again.

 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Bred,  I have sprouted wheat berries quite a few times,  I liked the flavor of flour milled from sprouted white winter berries -  it was sweeter than normal, but i didn't care for the red spring berries sprouted. YMMV.

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

I think I'll stick with sprouting seeds, like mung, alfalfa, and broccoli.  I'll grind, not sprout, wheat berries. 

After watching a YouTube with Peter Reinhart, author of Bread Revolution, where he demonstrates the wonders of working with sprouted flour, I reached these conclusions:

1. I would buy sprouted flour if the price point weren't exorbitant.

2. I would sprout and grind my own flour if I had a kitchen double/triple the present size (downsizing has its limitations ;-)

3. I would bake sprouted bread only if I were looking for a diversion. Bottom line, no one really knows if all that good nutrient stuff is retained after baking the dough in a hot oven for 30+ minutes.  And in terms of flavor profile, I can coax out flavor in my tiny kitchen with a preferment and by grinding different types of flour. 

That's my 2 cents.

Diane

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo
The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

I am currently building the W.W. sourdough, Leven. More on this tomorrow

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

is at 7 hrs. and looking very active. The plan for the workflow/timing is to play it by ear and let the dough dictate not the clock. I am looking at an 8:00 AM final dough build. By the way, since the Levein is only flour & water can I omit it as a stand-alone ingredient?  If not I stand at 8 over by one. 

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Step #1

Flours, 300grams water & starter, mix for 2 minuites. Fermentolyse 1hr.

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

I do not think that the lavon is a separate agreement because it is just flour and water that you are already using. not that it matters to me but I was curious as to whether different types of flour were considered different ingredients. For instance if I use white whole grain hard wheat and white whole grain soft wheat is that different ingredients or is it just whole grain wheat flour? In it should all be lumped under one ingredient called wheat.

 

WooWoo's picture
WooWoo

Levain, not lavon and ingredient, not agreement. Dictating not good today.

 

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

You know, in hind site the ingredient limit was meant for commercial bakers to make the bread feasibly easy to make daily.  I could have and should have added the rolled oats to the top. Smile...

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

What did you innoculate the preferment with?

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Hi, Dave.

My preferment is just a build with whole wheat flour of my white flour natural yeast starter. Two builds over 8 hours consisting of, First, build -  35G starter 35G water & 35G whole wheat flour. Second build, 35g WW flour & 35g water.

 Everything was going very well the final dough remaining ingredients incorporated nicely and after 15 minutes #2 the dough was developing some structure. (Honey, oil, and salt.)

 That last 58 grams of water is a big problem. The dough is just too wet. I got it to barely manageable, with a lot of bowl residue loss. Live and learn next time I would have added 30g of water first then decided if I should add more. The dough is in bulk now for 1hr. with stretch and folds at 30 & 60. Still sticky but better. I will check the progress in one hour untouched.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

After a nice quiet uneventful Sunday morning (five hours) our everyman whole wheat dough is near doubled. I did a quick set of stretch and folds to de-gas, and shaped my loaf. Not an easy task, however, with a minimal amount of WW flour I was able to get it done and in the greased pan. We are entering the home stretch! Enjoy the photos.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Two thoughts for next week's official "everyman" whole wheat sandwich bread bake.

1. Use the held back, water as needed and most likely not all of it.

.2. With slightly lower hydration and less bowl residue loss, I think I would be prudent to use my larger 10X5 loaf pan. 

That's it! Rustic grandma looks not withstanding, I am pretty happy. Pending the crumb/taste test. 

 

 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

Your photos certainly narrate the process. I hope that the bread was worthy of your time.

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

Each type of flour has to count as a different ingredient, just as each type of liquid has to count as a different ingredient. that’s part of the challenge!

otherwise, a recipe with whole wheat flour, all purpose flour, rye flour (flour), brown sugar and molasses (sweetener), water and buttermilk (liquid) Would count as three ingredients while in fact there are seven ingredients. Add yeast, and you’re up to eight.

on the other hand, a pre-ferment or a glaze that replicates a distinct ingredient (eg. flour/egg/milk)  in the dough has been accounted for, so It does not need to count as an additional ingredient

Anyway that’s how I see it. Let the fun begin :-)

 

HansB's picture
HansB

that Whole Wheat flour, AP flour would be one ingredient: wheat.

 

Sweetener and liquids are descriptions...

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

I have fudged a few items to use the express lane and have waited behind people a few too many over the limit. Good bread is made with fewer ingredients but the idea as I understand it is to make a simple, versatile, soft, healthy loaf that stays fresh and usable for five days. The oil and honey combined with a sourdough preferment with a yeast kicker seems like an ideal recipe to achieve that. I look forward to participating and seeing what other bakers come up with.