The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Community Bake - Whole Wheat Bread for the Multitudes - Starts Next Week

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Community Bake - Whole Wheat Bread for the Multitudes - Starts Next Week

 Photo above courtesy of The Bread Lab.

As of late there has been interest on the forum about an organization called, "The Bread Lab". It is an extension of Washington State University with a laser focus on wheat, people who process the wheat, bakers that work with the wheat, and consumers that eat the wheat. 

The Bread Lab has instituted a program to encourage commercial bakers to offer a basic whole wheat sourdough bread that is targeted for the average consumer. They named the bread, "Approachable Loaf". A simple name for a basic loaf of natural and nutritious goodness. A completely successful loaf would be one that children would choose to eat.

A quite a few bakeries have joined to participate in the vision.

Here are a couple of formulas that are being baked in a commercial setting.
http://thebreadlab.wsu.edu/the-approachable-loaf/
https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/just-bread-recipe

Here is a brief write up detailing a common recipe for the Approachable Loaf. NOTE - the formula and method is not meant to be an absolute. Bakers are free and welcomed to develop formulas and methods that meet the minimal criteria.

Basic Criteria -

  • is baked in a tin and sliced.
  • contains no more than seven ingredients.
  • contains no non-food.
  • is at least 60% whole wheat—preferably 100%.
  • is priced under $6/loaf. (Bakeries)
  • 10¢ of every loaf sold returns to The Bread Lab to support further research of other whole grain products. (Bakeries)

Great News for bakers that don’t use sourdough. An Affordable Loaf can be baked using commercial yeast. The main goal is to promote whole grain breads. If you lan to bake using commercial yeast only, a poolish (preferment) would be a great idea. If you would like a recipe/formula, let us know and we’ll provide one. Although you are free to choose your own formula if you wish.

A large number of our bakers don't use commercial yeast. When the actual Community Bake is published next week, there will be a formula provided for the Approachable Loaf that will not use CY.

Everyone is welcome and encouraged to join in and participate in the event. For those that are new to Community Bakes, it is a great opportunity to share and learn with and from others.

The Community Bake (CB) has been posted.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62486/community-bake-approachable-loaf-bread-lab

 

Danny

 
The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

This bake is perfect for the dietary changes going on around these parts! Glad you checked in with me, Dan!

Benito's picture
Benito

Sounds good, I haven’t done a whole wheat bread in a loaf pan yet.  I will participate once I’m back in Toronto.

Benny

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

I have not had much success with WW over 50% I am intrigued by the hybrid loaf idea. Many of the Hammelman/ King Arthur sourdough recipes call for a bit of IDY that I have always omitted. I wonder why they chose the seven ingredient limit since add ins are used to improve nutrition and flavor. Perhaps it has something to do with keeping the cost down to sell a $6 loaf.

From what I have read about the Approachable loaf an important criteria is a bread that does not go stale quickly. That explains the use of a preferment and should be added to the bullet points.

I look forward to seeing the efforts of this community. Thanks for running the herd on this Danny

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo


Test breads are always baked before a Community Bake begins.

The initial test results are promising. Not sure it will have the school kids running for it yet, but to me it is super nice. A pleasant departure from the chewy, tangy breads that most of us are familiar with.

The bread is moist, soft, and is extremely easy to chew. (Note to self, “don’t forget about the ‘easy to chew’ part as you advance in age” :D. The formula used 100% Hard Red Wheat (100% extraction). The most notable flavor characteristic was the nice tang that manifested as the bread was chewed. The chew was great. Nothing like Wonder Bread but also very far away from our typical chewy artisan sourdough. There was the slightest resistance to the bite, but nothing more than slight. I believe the 5% oil produced much of that.

The loaf was cut into 23 thin slices (less calories) and most of them were frozen individually and bagged after an hour or so. 2 slices were letft out to test for staling in the upcoming days.

More about this bake will be posted to the actual CB once it commences.

I am especially excited about this bakes. Both The Bread Lab and King Arthur have shown an interest in helping.

See you there...
Danny

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The last of 3 test bakes used a whole wheat and water tangzhong. The results were a giant step towards improvement. The flavor, texture (even softer) and loft excelled the first two bakes.

 
Extensive details will be published to the actual CB this Friday. Y’all, this bread is goood...

theo's picture
theo

What if I dont have a starter. Im still new to baking and havent tackled levains yet.  Maybe a poolish or biga?

 

Thank you,

 

Theo 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Theo, your user page says New York City.  There are several NYC users here who might share some of their live and wet (fresh)  starter, and you could bake within 12-24 hours from the time you get it.   ifs201 is in NYC, I believe.   Maybe  meet at a neutral location for safety.   

I know NYC is a big place, but there is probably a TFL-er in your borough.

Mail order Dehydrated starter usually takes me 4 days from mixing with water to "bloom", then can "sort of" bake on day 7, but usually day 10 to get it  "balanced".

Starting from scratch, mixing plain water and plain flour, usually takes up to 4 days to bubble, 7 days (total) to "bloom" and then 14 days (total) to have confidence  that it is "mature" and "balanced" enough to bake with.  Depending on what and how you feed it, it could take a month to mature.

KingArthurflour.com sells a fresh starter that they say you can bake with in 24 hours of receipt.

Breadtopia.com sells a dehydrated starter. Have not tried it.

CulturesForHealth.com sells several dehydrated starters. I have successfully used two of their strains. $10.99 on Amazon.  I like the flavor of their San Fran style starter.

Sourdo.com sells dehydrated starter cultures from around the world. Have not tried it. Also available on Amazon.

Carlsfriends.net has dehydrated starter for $1 donation plus self-addressed stamped envelope. Volunteer-run in batches, so can take a few weeks.  This is a very powerful starter, that goes like gang busters, even in the fridge, especially with whole wheat.  But I was not fond of the taste.

ifs201's picture
ifs201

Also She Wolf Bakery (which I highly, highly recommend) gives away free starter from time to time at USQ green market.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

It seems to me that they are using a lot of C.Y. in bread that also contains natural yeast. Anyhow, N.Y.C. Greenwich Village reporting. I can offer at no charge my own very nice, very active sourdough starter. Slow-Mo will serve you well and is very happy to just mellow for weeks at a time in the refrigerator. 

 

theo's picture
theo

thank you for all the options!  I do look forward to meeting fellow NY TLFers one day. I dont want to inconvenience anyone for a starter. Besides im still having fun playing with biga and poolish.  I took your advice regarding not overworking the biga in foorkish's 80% white biga recipe.  It worked excellent. Amazing how after 12 hrs fermentation, the biga had excellent elasticity and extensibility.  I will post photos tomorrow when bake the loaf.  

 

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Theo, why don’t you join in and use Commercial Yeast? That way once you migrate over to sourdough you’ll have a jump start on whole wheat breads.

The poolish or biga is a great idea. The poolish will probably be easier to incorporate because of the hydration. But either will work and provide additional flavor.

Word of caution - If you have no experience baking with whole wheat, you may want to start off with a 60/40 mix. 60% whole wheat and 40% Bread Flour. Some characteristics of whole wheat are not identical to commercial flour. 

Danny Ayo

theo's picture
theo

thank you danyo... I cant wait to post my results

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Theo, Janine with The Bread Lab just got back to me. She said that a loaf using commercial yeast is completely acceptable. There main goal is to promote Whole Wheat.

I hope other non-sourdough bakers join in and participate in the Community Bake.

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

 WW and AP count as 2 ingredients albeit both are flour. Correct?

also, preferment is not a requirement, correct? I have made 1000 g flour with 1/4 tsp instant yeast, long, slow rise.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Diane, I don’t think their criteria for the bread is rigid. We can ask the experts once the CB begins. For example; the question was posed, “is it alright to use commercial yeast without sourdough culture”. I got with The Bread Lab and they told me that was absolutely fine. The main goal is to get people back to eating whole grain breads.

I am pretty sure if a formula used hard red wheat, soft white wheat, spelt and rye, that together they would be considered a single ingredient. The Approachable Loaf is not meant to be highly restrictive.

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

I looked at the King Arthur Just Bread formula - whole wheat and all purpose flour are counted as two different ingredients (I should’ve done that before posting my question)

I like the challenge. Just seven ingredients :-)

ifs201's picture
ifs201

Deleted

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

Oh YAY! I use commercial yeast and bake 2-4 loaves of 100% WW every week.  I fresh mill my grain, make a poolish, and then bake on day 2.  Wonderful sandwich loaves, even after freezing.  Strong texture, great crumb, and wonderful mouth feel.  When I go bonkers, I add sunflower hearts, pecans, flax seeds, etc.

I can't wait to see what pops up in here.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Great to hear Gnome! When you post your bake on the CB, please remember to post the formula and method. I would really like to see more non-sourdough bakers join in the bakes.

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

You BET! New to how this place works.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Gnome, if you have a formula and method for a basic whole wheat bread made with a poolish, I would like to see it. I want to publish something like this in the initial post for the Community Bake so that other non-sd bakers can join in.

If you choose to send this, it can be sent to https://www.thefreshloaf.com/user/danayo

Thanks,
Dan

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

I'll send it on Monday, which is bake day here.  :)

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

It says I cannot access that page.

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I’ll ask the site admin to give you the proper privileges. Get back to you soon.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Gnome, the site admin is Speedy Gonzales.

you are set to go.

Scootsmcgreggor's picture
Scootsmcgreggor

looking forward to my first CB, and this one in particular. In my sourdough baking have only gotten to 40% WW before the family starts commenting on it not being as good as loaves with lower WW %. I’ve got a 5yr old and 2.5yr old so have some “subjects” in the target demographic to test this on. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Great to hear, Scoots! Maybe the addition of a little oil and honey may soften and sweeten the loaf enough to enlist the test group.

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

If you can get the kids to "help" with the loaves, you'd be amazed at how much they suddenly like their own creation.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

My secret to hiding the level of WW in a loaf is to use white whole wheat, as opposed to red whole wheat.  When I want just the flavor of red wheat, then I use 2 parts white whole wheat to 1 part red whole wheat.   

This has been one of my favorite ratios:  50% white WW flour, 25% red WW flour, 25% Bread flour (ie, 11.5% protein or higher.)

I now home-mill, but in the past have used Kroger brand and Trader Joe brand white whole wheat flour.

King Arthur also makes a white whole wheat flour.

theo's picture
theo

What do you think of the following formula?  

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Theo, since I’m not familiar with yeasted breads, others should comment on that portion.

A few things to consider

  1. Since whole wheat does not produce as strong a gluten network as white flour. Would bread flour be a better choice than all purpose?
  2. Whole wheat is more coarse (larger particles) than white flour, would a portion of the whole wheat be a better choice for the poolish? The thought is that the long pre-ferment of the poolish will soften the large particles.
  3. Store bought whole wheat will be finer (small particles) than home milled whole wheat. Because of this, it can be expected that store bought will absorb less water than home milled. Assuming you are using store bought whole wheat and since you haven’t mixed this formula before, it might be a good idea to set aside some “hold out water”. What about something like 72% water + 8% hold out water? The dough would be mixed with a total water of 72% and then adjusted upwards until it feels right to you. This way you have the option to raise the hydration (if needed) as high as you think it needs to go. Be careful to add your hold out water very slowly. A couple of tablespoons of water can make the difference between a dough just right and too wet.
  4. Salt is typically between 1.8 and 2%. But 2.2% is not considered out of range.

Honey and oil percentages look good. Many caution to add them, especially the oil, after the gluten is formed. I think this holds more true for mixing with a mixer. When mixing by hand it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference for me.

Yeast looks good to me. But as stated, I have very little experience in that area.

All in all, it looks really good to me. The suggestions above are only mentioned for your considerations. It will work as is, IMO.

Danny

HansB's picture
HansB

The term Bread Flour does not really have much meaning. KAAP at 11.7% is higher protein than other flour brands "Bread Flour."

I have seen most references to recommended salt levels being 1.8-2.2%

theo's picture
theo

danyo

 

thank you on your pointers. I will hold some of the water back and see.  I adapted a forkish recipe for our bake and he used AP flour. What poolish formula do you recommend I use? 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Theo, when it comes to poolish others have more experience. If others don't provide an acceptable answer, get back with me and I'll investigate for you.

Update:
I'd think those experienced with a poolish will tell you to use "just a pinch" for the 12-15 hour pre-ferment.

Since the final dough will use quite a bit of commercial yeast, you can consider the poolish pre-ferment as much a levainer as it is a flavor enhancer and a natural dough conditioner.

Hans made the distinction that some flours, for example King Arthur All Purpose flour contains 11.7% protein. According to the BBGA, a flour with that percentage of protein is considered Bread Flour. As a matter of fact Jeffrey Hamelman refers to it as bread flour. What I should have more accurately said is that high protein flour will raise the overall gluten content of your dough. This in my opinion is a good thing for this type of bread. If I were using a portion of white flour in this formula, a high protein flour would be my optimal choice, especially during the initial testing phase.

theo's picture
theo

I ordered 9 lbs of Sir Lancelot High gluten flour from KA a few days ago. I'll add it do the bake  Thank you

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I have experience with Sir Lancelot. Buy the way Sir Lancelot is the professional name for their High Protein flour that is packaged for the home baker.

In my experience, Sir Lancelot has a definite place. But if the flour is not fermented for a very long time, for me it lacks the flavor and texture of BF or AP. Maybe this is correct, maybe not, but I would run two scenarios with this flour.

  1. Use Sir Lancelot for all of the white flour, both the pre-ferment and also the final mix.
  2. Use Sir Lancelot in the pre-ferment only. Use King Arthur or some other high protein BF in the final mix.

If you try this, make a comparison and post your findings. It would interest me and I think others to know.

Dan

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Theo,  Many people say that honey and oil count as hydration.  So it looks like you have 92.25 % hydration.  

Therefore, I second Dan's suggestion of reducing your initial hydration by holding back some water and adding it later as needed.

My gut feel, from my mostly WW formulas,  is that half the oil and half the  honey should be counted as hydration, making your above chart 86%, which is still high, even for that level of WW.

Another thought:  You've probably already picked this up by reading Forkish/TFL, but just to be sure...   WW and honey boost and quicken fermentation.  The enzymes in WW make sugar out of the more complex carbs, and the honey is sugar.   So try to follow/approximte a published formula's ferment/proof timings for that combination.  If your timings with this loaf are on the order of your white-flour no-added-sugar formulas, you'll be very over-fermented.

theo's picture
theo

Dave,

I adapted forkish's sat 75% whole wheat loaf for this bake.  Just added poolish and fat.  Point well taken on hydration.  How much water do you recommend i hold back?  Also when is it best to add fats?  Advanced Bread & Pastry states:

  • oil should be incorporated in the mixing phase. However, quantities greater than 15% should be added after full gluten development (pg 62)
  • Sugars should be included in initial mix. Being hydroscopic, anything greater than 12% should be incorporated in steps (pg 62) 

I've completed several bakes and find that temperature is a guideline. Final volume is the delineating factor.  Usually I go past time specified. Once I finished bf sooner.due to a miscalculation of yeast. I added 3x what was specified.

 

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I'd suggest holding back 50 gr of water.   like Dan usually suggests, weigh that separately, keep it separate, and weigh what's left in the container it's in when you're done dribbling it in (if necessary) into the final dough.  That way you won't have to weigh every little dribble that you put back in the dough.

Dan or others can give you a better estimate, but I would suggest letting the dough sit for 30 to 60 minutes* after final mix (poolish and everything except the hold-back water) before decidng how much hold-back water to put in.  It takes whole wheat longer to hydrate than refined flour.  So the first few times you use majority whole wheat in dough, your judgement of "hydration level by feel" is off kilter until you get accustomed and make allowances for it.

As to the oil, I used to just disperse it best I could in the water, before combining with flour.  I don't use added oil now that I home-mill, as the freshly milled flour is naturally oily.

Honey: dissolve  in  the water for the final mix, before combining with flour, so it doesn't concentrate in spots.

I'll defer to others as to how best to mix poolish with the final water/honey/oil and flour.

---

* side-bar: FWSY doesn't seem to have a formula that's both commercially-yeasted-preferment and over 50% whole wheat.  What you're describing above is more in Peter Reinhart's territory, and dealt with in book "Whole Grain Breads."   Reinhart's thing is a poolish with a soaker/autolyse.  While the poolish is fermenting, the rest of the whole wheat is absorbing water and making sugar while soaking.

You can make some good guesses by extrapolating on Forkish's work, but Reinhart dials it in better for a mostly whole wheat dough.  (By the way, did you get Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads Kindle-ebook when it was on sale for $2.99? If not, it will be on sale again soon.)

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

My poolish is sleeping for the night.....shhhhhhh.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

I have to say the flavor and texture of this 100% whole grain sandwich loaf is outstanding! In fact, I would not be shy to submit a better-looking rendition of this formula into a contest! Now without any further a due, I give you, the Will Falzon variation of  Approachable whole wheat, Everyman bread! Move over wonder bread!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Will, when considering the hydration, factor in the honey and oil. Maybe hold out 10% water and add it in after the oil and honey have been incorporated AND the dough has been allowed to rest a while.

In my case, this type of bread is foreign to me. I am on my third rendition. One of the things I’ve learned is to forget the usual hydration and allow enough hold out water to make adjustments at the end of mixing.

Another variable to consider is the whole wheat flour. Some use home ground, others use store bought. The thirst of whole wheat flour will probably vary much more than white flour in regards to water absorption.

For all 3 bakes 100% home milled Hard Red Wheat (100% extraction) so far I have been unable to get the gluten network that I am accustomed to.

This latest attempt used a Tangzhong and also rec’d a strong lamination. Will bake off tomorrow. We’ll see...

I agree with you. The flavor and texture of this bread is outstanding.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Hi, Dan.

 I did follow that workflow, adding a fermentoysle. After about 5 minutes on #2 in my Bocsh, I had some signs of strength. In went the salt honey and oil. It took about fifteen minutes, but the oil & honey blended in nicely. Here is where I screwed the pooch. Instead of adding the last 58g of water in small increments, I dumped it all in!. What a mess I had created. Long story short, I was lucky to stick with the game plan and make a nice save!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Will, it would be valuable for others to submit this bake to the CB. We aren’t competing for “best in show”. We are all learning together.

One baker submits a nice bread and another a bread that failed in one or more aspects.. We can learn more from mistakes of the failed bread than we do from the success of the other. Remember, “the good, the bad, and the ugly”.

Your caution for this bake could be - to be careful when adjusting the hydration, since this type of bread is not something most of us are used to. Also a reminder to consider any other wet ingredients that may affect the hydration.

Note - it seems that over mixing either by machine or even by hand requires more caution with 100% whole wheat. I say this because I am almost sure that the gluten on my second loaf suffered for too many slap % folds. In an effort to develop the gluten via slap & fold I think the dough was inadvertently over worked. For this last bake I used Rubaud, lamination, coil folds, and stretch and folds (all with a watchful eye and caution).

albacore's picture
albacore

I chanced upon this article regarding the Approachable Loaf (open or download the pdf by clicking on the link on the LHS).

It deals with the shelf life of the "AL", but has also has a bit of info on loaf loft and tangzhong method.

Lance

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Lance, is there more to the article besides the short account that sd is good and honey and raisin juice has a little to no affect on staling?

albacore's picture
albacore

What you see is what you get, Dan. It also gives details on how they made the tangzhong and tells you that their TZ loaf had the worst loft of the three methods.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Ok, I found the article. For those that may be “challenged” like me. See this link.
https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/downloads/sb397f793?locale=en

Thanks for the great link. I am getting ready to bake off a SD with no CY utilizing a Whole Wheat Tangzhong in 30 minutes and counting. It has also retarded overnight at 50F. The results should be interesting.

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Couldn't resist.

Excellent, but very limited,  experiment for the affect of different leavenings,sweeteners and TZ on WW bread. After reading the conclusion, I would not qualify the TZ loaf with a value like "worst" (unless size is your only measure) . The conclusion reports less loft but better mold-free shelf and a softer crumb for a longer time after bake. These sound desirable to me.

Also, they only allude to flavor. A highly acidic loaf is good for preservation but I don't like too much tang-and I've had some mouth puckering loaves! Kept great but no one would eat them so they lasted a LONG time!

This experiment tests very limited variables. A big limitation in this simple experiment is the assumption that the different ingredients perform best when treated exactly the same. They really did not test handling methods-which has a GREAT impact on the outcome of a dough/loaf. They were trying to control variables but the fact of the matter is that the "art" of baking comes into play here. When properly handled, using a method appropriate for THAT ingredient list, these 3 "identical" loaves should look quite different in the hands of a baker that handles the ingredients,dough and loaf with this knowledge in hand.

It is a good start in seeing how ingredients perform and then using that information incorporated into the artfullness of baking to achieve the best loaf-for those ingredients. It is not the final word on WW bread.

BTW-there has been little mention of the importance of a good autolyse for WW for softness and flavor. That is key no matter what sweeteners or leavening is used.

As long as I'm mentioning assumptions- I keep hearing in this post that WW flour has less gluten. I beg to differ, at least if it is hard,red spring wheat. It has great gluten but it needs to be soaked,softened and worked (knead, beat, frissage, slap&fold, whatever) to a window pane, like any other loaf for the best loaf. Adding high-gluten bread flour is a workaround tool to make a quick fix rather than working the flour at hand to its capabilities. To me, adding bread flour is like making a cake mix rather than making a cake from scratch. Different tools,useful and both can have great outcomes but 1 method is not necessarily "better"-just meets different requirements.

Have delicious fun!

albacore's picture
albacore

"I would not qualify the TZ loaf with a value like "worst" (unless size is your only measure)".

Just to set the record straight, I would just point out that my adjective worst did only refer to the loft aka height of the TZ loaf compared to the other two.

I fully accept it may well have other attributes that are superior!

Lance

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

Just yanked my own 100% WW laves out of the oven.(I'll turn them out of the pans after I feed the livestock.)

  I make two loaves once a week.  After cooling I slice them both, and toss one in the freezer.  One loaf can last us a week when son is at school, it stays fresh, isn't crumbly, and my biggest criteria, makes awesome toast too.

I use home ground Hard Red Spring Wheat berries (NutriMill Plus on Fine #2).

And my eggs are fresh from the farm.  In fact, today, I had to WAIT on a bird to sit down to work on the loaves. (No pressure ladies.)

My recipe does use 8 ingredients though, and works over two days. But even on a day everything seems to go belly up, they come out.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Beautifulloaves, Gnome!

Areyou pans 9x5”? If so how much do the doughs weigh? They look like the perfect size for your pans.

Do you have the formula/recipe handy? Can you scan it and post? I’d like to see what you’re doing...

Danny

OH! Are your slices sticking together when you take them out of the freezer? If so, take a look.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62257/tip-frozen-bread-individual-slices

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

never have sticking, no.  I can post it, yes.  Am out in a steel barn ATM, so it will have to be later. 

9x5 yes.

1 pound 10 ounce-ish loaves.

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

I sent the recipe to the OP as requested.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Hi, Gnome.

I hope you are well this fine morning. Your approachable loaves sure do look a peach! I can't seem to find your posting with the formula. Would you mind posting in on this thread also? Thanks!

Will F.

 

GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

DanAyo Asked me to send it to him.  I am new here and misunderstood how this Community bake worked.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Here is Gnome’s formula and method. She asked me to post it for her. Her life seems so interesting...

Ok, I'm not a big fancy baker with a million loaves under my belt. But I do have about 40 years of bread baking behind me.  That said I've cut WAAAAY back on the carbs the past two years as I am TRYING to not become a diabetic.  And the carbs that do go in are limited and are as high in fiber as I can make them.  Hence the grinding my own wheat (plus I'm in wheat country LOL.)

I don't have fancy kitchen equipment and only bake what we'll eat, and I bake what doesn't require a ton of time or effort as I run a small ranch.  If it can't have a small grace time (excluding baking limits) then it won't work here, as sometime things outside take a few more minutes than planned.

I use a KitchenAid Pro600 and a normal kitchen oven (my convection is screwy, so I don't use it.) I weigh my ingredients and use a digital scale and remote digital thermometer. 9x5 pans. Loves come out at about 1 pound 10ish ounces

I have no idea how this will work with commercial WW flour, white whole wheat flour etc, which had variable protein, moisture and oil factors. I have also in the past tossed in handfuls of sunflower hearts, pecans, dates, flax seeds, sesame seeds etc when the mood strikes.

Day 1

I grind 7 cups of hard red winter wheat and toss it into the flour bin for the week. I use a NutriMill Plus on fine and #2.

For the Poolish I use my 6qt mixing bowl.

I toss in 20 ounces of barely warm well water.  (It has no salts, no chlorine (salt) nor is it softened (MORE salts))

2 tsp of SAF instant yeast (which I buy in bulk and keep in the freezer)

12 ounces, by weight, of whole wheat flour

I mix this with a spoon until it resembles soupy cream of wheat.

=======

I then take 16 ounces, by weight of additional whole wheat flour and sprinkle it over the top.

I cover the bowl with plastic wrap and leave it on the counter for an hour at about 65-70 degrees.  Warmer room less time, but at least 30 minutes, cooler and you can leave it 1.5 hours.

When that time has elapsed, I put the bowl in the fridge. I keep it there for at least 12 hours and up to 36.  Farm life happens! LOL.

=======

Day 2

I pull the bowl out of the fridge and let it sit on the counter, covered, for an hour.

Then, using the paddle attachment on the mixer, on the lowest setting mix the whole mess together. At this stage it resembles cookie dough ready for the chips.

I remove it from the mixer, and recover it and put it back on the counter to warm 1-2 hours.

===========

At the end of the waiting period

mix one room temperature egg (I use fresh, really fresh- I have chickens) of about 65 grams and 1/4 cup of liquid vegetable oil in a small container to make and emulsion

Put the dough bowl back on the mixer with the dough hook this time.  On the stir/#2 setting get the hook going into the dough and add in the egg/oil combo and mix until it is fully in the dough. It doesn't take long.

========

Stop the mixer and add:

80 grams of PACKED brown sugar (I prefer dark)

2t of yeast

2t salt

30 grams of dry milk

allow mixer to do its job for 6-8 minutes on stirring speed/#2

It pulls from the sides of the bowl and forms its own ball.  It should not be loose or dry and should show some webbing on the ball.

cover and place in a warm location to double ( I steam up the microwave and put my bowl in there) 

==============

After doubling, I put the dough on my lightly floured board and cut it into two pieces.

I flatten each piece, fold into thirds, and then roll and tuck under the ends.

Each one is placed into a greased/sprayed pan and put back into your moist warm location.  

Again I steam up my microwave with damp dish towel and place the pans uncovered in there, until the loaves are doubled.

Towards the end of the rise I crank up the oven to 425 and let it get fully hot - I loose a lot of heat when I open my door, most people could probably just preheat to 375.

When the loaves are risen, I place them in the oven and drop the temp to 375.  

I bake for 15 minutes and then shove in my remote thermometer, set to go off for 198 degrees.

 

When it goes off, I pull the loaves to a rack and let sit for 10 minutes and then remove the pans and place the naked loaves on the rack.

These loaves must be 100% no kidding Cool when sliced or they are ruined.

I get 16-17 slices out of each loaf and I toss the heals (not included in the 16-17) to the hens.

 

 

 

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GnomeOnTheRange's picture
GnomeOnTheRange

Thanks Dan.

Twisticles's picture
Twisticles

I'm new in these parts and enjoy experimenting with different kinds of breads, mostly lazy loaves!

With the use of CY I was reminded of The Grant Loaf (no-knead) from Mary-Anne Boermans (GBBO 2011).

Seems like this would fit the criteria, but I don't have any children to test it on.

 

****************

1.5 kg (1 bag) stone-ground wholemeal bread flour

2 sachets rapid-rise yeast

1 litre + 300ml warm water

25g salt

25g muscovado sugar (or any brown sugar, or honey)

 

Method

  • Put the flour into a large bowl and place in a gentle oven to warm. It doesn’t much matter if you don’t warm it, but it does speed up the rising.
  • Put the sugar and salt into a large jug and add half the water. Stir to dissolve.
  • Grease the bread tins using cooking spray or oil.
  • Mix the yeast into the warmed flour and pour in the sugar/salt mixture, then add the rest of the water.
  • Stir until the flour is fully mixed in. This is probably easiest to do using your hands, but using a utensil works well, also. Personally, I use a large two-pronged wooden fork from an otherwise unused set of salad servers, because the prongs move easily through the wet mix. I regularly manage to whip up a batch of this bread without touching the mix with my hands at all! Remember: you’re only mixing, not kneading – so as soon as all the flour is incorporated, stop. The dough will be much more moist than traditional bread dough – more like a fruit cake mix or thick, badly-made porridge.
  • Spoon the dough into the bread tins, making sure it’s evenly divided – each tin should be approximately ¾ full. If you want to measure by weight, it’s approximately 950g per tin.
  • Set the tins on a baking sheet somewhere warm to rise by about 1/3, until the dough is just above the top of the tins and nicely rounded. It should take no more than 30 minutes. If, like me, you’re lucky enough to have a double oven, then put the baking sheet onto the shelf in the top oven while the main oven heats up. NB Don’t put the tins onto the floor of the top oven – even if they’re on a baking sheet – it will get too hot. Otherwise, anywhere warm and draft-free will do.
  • Preheat the oven to 200C, 180C Fan.
  • Bake for 30 minutes, then turn the baking sheet 180° and bake for a further 20 minutes for a total of 50 minutes.
  • Remove the tins from the oven and tip out the bread. Arrange the loaves on a wire rack.
  • Put the loaves back into the oven for 5 minutes to crisp up the crust.
  • Cool on the wire rack.

**************

Obviously can be scaled down as well.

 

Credit to Mary-Anne, recipe taken from  https://timetocookonline.com/2011/07/01/no-knead-bread-the-grant-loaf/ (I'm not affiliated!)

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

One of my favorite recipes Is anadama bread Which I converted from commercial yeast to sourdough.  So my first thought for the approachable loaf was to try an adaptation of anadama Using seven ingredients, including commercial yeast.

  1. whole wheat flour
  2. water
  3. egg
  4. molasses
  5. Brown sugar
  6. salt
  7. yeast

my thought was that by incorporating an egg, it would give it the richness of oil, added protein and help with the rise.

this is going to take some tweaking both in the “order of operations“ and the formula percents.

The finished loaf looks good, slices easily, and tastes too healthy to lure anyone weaned on Wonder Bread.

 

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick
DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Nice, Diane. How would you describe the taste? Is the bread have a noticeable sweetness?

USince a number of people, including myself have started baking the bread, the Community Bake will be posted tomorrow. Please remember to repost all bakes to the actual CB so that others can learn from your experiences.

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

for me. 

i am going to increase the %

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I need help producing a whole grain dough with a better gluten network. I’ve baked 4 Approachable loaves now and would like to improve the gluten. All loaves have been 100% WW (100% extraction).

  • Is this possible with 100% WW
  • Should I consider a particular wheat variety 

Any help and/or ideas appreciated. Thus far I have resisted using a small percentage of white flour and Vital Wheat Gluten.

 

albacore's picture
albacore

Are you developing the gluten enough, Dan? Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book recommends 20 minutes kneading/600 strokes to give a smooth elastic dough.

Lance

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Yep, Laurel is my go to for 100% WW. On the second bake I actually did 400 kneading reps! She advises 300 per loaf and 600 if the batch and s for 2 loaves. I am baking 1) 1000g loaf for each test bake. I became concerned that I was over working the dough. I normally do 150 + 150 slap & folds, but have cut that back because the gluten starts to look worse towards the end.

The last bake utilized an oat porridge. The gluten was worst of all bakes so far. I think the oat particles hindered the gluten.

Do get me wrong, the loaves are actually pretty nice, all 4 of then so far, but looking for excellence!

Here is today’s loaf.

I have a successfully baked Laurel’s WW a number of times. But I think the oil and honey might have an affect on the gluten. Wished I could solve this...

I wimped out for tomorrow’s bake and went 60/40 (WW/BF).

Bred Maverick's picture
Bred Maverick

My recipe is 100% whole wheat and I have no issues with gluten development. What kind of whole wheat flour are you using?

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I'm not sure what you mean by better gluten network. Do the baked slices crumble? Is the crumb too dense or chewy? Soft WW bread is definitely achievable but not as fluffy as a AP or 70% WW can be made. Enter "fluffy whole wheat" in the search box. This was discussed at length a number of times over the years. Txfarmer, especially, had a WW Hokkaido Milk Bread that was beautiful. I don't think her pictures are available anymore but the posts are.

Found it!:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23931/sd-100-ww-hokkaido-milk-loaf-oxymoron

The key for any bread to have a great gluten network (even when made with low protein AP flour or WW) is an adequate hydration, enough time for all the branny bits to absorb the water and be fully hydrated, development of the starchy gel that forms a good window pane. I have hear a lot of comments about how the bran cuts the window pane and so a WW cannot form a good window pane. Hogwash.  A WW flour that is finely ground,fully hydrated and kneaded to windowpane makes a lovely, fairly fluffy, soft loaf.

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

I remember that post, and the awe it inspired, well.  I wonder how many KA mixers have melted down chasing her ww windowpane.

Caveat Bakers:  If you run a post-Hobart, plastic-geared KA, this process may spell its doom. 

You've been warned.

Tom
Piano piano a mano

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Clazar, I have been mixing the doughs slightly less hydrated than normal. Maybe I’m headed in the wrong direction. Tomorrow I’ll mix the dough wetter and monitor the results.

”Better gluten network” - a very smooth and supple skin. One that is capable of holding  most/all of the gas. It seems the windowpane is thick and overly strong. Hydration may get me closer. For some reason I thought that a less hydrated dough would work better with a pan.

The doughs are springing, but not as much as I’d like.

I hope the hydration fixes the issue. That will be a simple fix. Thanks!

clazar123's picture
clazar123

WW flour that is properly hydrated and given adequate soaking time and proper development of windowpane can need 80% or even up to100% hydration for a good loaf. Interestingly, the dough can feel like a 65-75% hydration  AP flour dough. Different flours ( and even different batches of the same kind of flour) have different hydration requirements and baker's percentages can have less meaning-the feel of the dough is a better way to evaluate the dough.  So try increasing the hydration along with a good soak and good windowpane development and see what happens.

MTloaf's picture
MTloaf

Let the machine do it. Put in a mixer and let it rip. Drizzle the water in and keep going until full development happens. I never mix sourdough this way but for soft sandwich bread it seems to work.  

thebreadlab's picture
thebreadlab

Hi Dan,

My question would be, "Why do you want to improve the gluten in your Approachable?" 

When I bake at home or in the lab I use 100% unsifted ww flour. Typically a hard red winter wheat. We generally have Skagit 1109 on hand so that's what I use. But any will do. 

-Janine

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Janine, since I started upping the hydration the gluten network has improved greatly. I was under the impression that sandwich style (pan) breads used a little lower hydration than free form loaves. Now that the dough is being mixed wetter, the gluten network is supple, more extensible, and smooth.

Scootsmcgreggor's picture
Scootsmcgreggor

Dan have you tried reducing the oil content? I wonder if one can get away with say 3% oil vs 7 and still keep the bread “approachable”. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I haven’t Scoots. The Approachable doesn’t require any oil or honey. The only required ingredient is at least 60% whole grain. The baker is free to use up to 7 ingredients as long as they are not “non-food” (ascorbic acid, etc.)

Do you think the oil is interfering with the gluten?

HansB's picture
HansB

Dan, when are you adding the oil? As you probably know, it's best to add oil after the wheat is completely hydrated.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Hans, with the exception of salt it goes in at the end. Since the dough is worked by hand all ingredients incorporate very well.

HansB's picture
HansB

From the pizza forum where Tom (dough Doctor) always writes that adding oil early in the mix coats the flour and reduces it's ability to absorb water. Just a thought.

Scootsmcgreggor's picture
Scootsmcgreggor

Sorry I was just referencing the 7% listed in the WSU standard formula, and assumed you were somewhere around there. 

Generally fat does interfere with a given gluten network from my experience and learnings. Im by no means an expert but when I looked at the WSU formula my first guess as to why the oil is included is to soften the gluten structure to provide a softer bite and easier chew. My experience is with more highly enriched breads though so not sure how pronounced that effect is for single digit fat enrichment.

mwilson's picture
mwilson

From the archives..

Recipe on my blog

Very low density. Specific volume (ml/g) above 4!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Michael, that bread is an absolute masterpiece!

Please don’t tease us. We need your method and every tiny detail. I would like to give this bread one serious try or 12.

This is the type of bread that should prevail on Instagram...

I am going to study this one.

Just rec’d Martin Philip’s commercial formula from the King Arthur Bakery. I noticed there levain is 60% and I wondered why it was so low. Your’s is 45%. Are we missing something very important?

...and like you, King Arthur uses a yeast kicker in the final dough. It’s high time I jump on the wagon.

Teach us all.

Danny

Michael, how do you calculate the specific volume/density?

 

mwilson's picture
mwilson

That's a very prestigious commendation!

I don't often prescribe a method along with my formulae because in reality rarely do they translate.

This bake should not be thought of as a sourdough bread, it is a commercial yeast leavened bread first and foremost. The "levain" as you call it is only there to impart its natural improving properties and its composition is consists of white flour since that is the nature of my SD starter. Therefore this bread is actually only 85% wholemeal, but I can live with that and I know I could match the result at a truly 100%.

The method is: Mix the ingredients in an appropriate manner, working the dough to full development and process in the usual way...

I'm happy to teach but I can't do that via this platform.

Thanks again for your kind words, they mean a lot.

Cheers,
Michael

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

exactly how the loaf was shaped.  The swirl is very interesting.  Lovely!  

mwilson's picture
mwilson

It was shaped in the standard way...

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

For those that posted bakes to this for...

If you don’t mind, please repost your bakes to the actual CB.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62486/community-bake-approachable-loaf-bread-lab 
Others can learn from your work and it will be better to have the bakes consolidated for those interested in learning.

Thanks,

Danny