The Fresh Loaf

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100% rye, third attempt

jimt's picture

100% rye, third attempt

I finally found my oven spring but didn't plan for it this time. This is using Mini-oven's 100% rye ratio recipe that I've now attempted for the third time. The first two tries I used a banneton and deflated the loaves when they went into the oven. All three have been made with the same recipe with slightly different results which I can only attribute to starter timing (my guess after process of elimination). The first two tries I wound up with something similar to what I expected from seeing a few videos--something I could mold like clay. This time after the mix/bulk when I tried to transfer the dough it was very 'goopy' somewhere between batter and dough, but definitely not something I could mold. I waited about thirty minutes after mixing before adding salt and bread spices...about 3 hours after that before shaping (attempting to shape) and about another 2-1/2 hours before baking.

I baked one in a loaf pan and the other I used a 2 qt dutch oven...and the dough stuck to the lid. I had at least an inch of room for rise and after my last few tries at this recipe I wasn't exactly expecting a large amount of oven spring. I added the DO to the oven while it was heating and waited for the oven to come to temperature before adding the loaf pan.

Anyway, this is what I found when I went to remove the lid during the bake:



I wound up removing the loaf from the pan mid-bake (I used a fair amount of lard and it still stuck) and finished it on a stone.


It's a rather raggedy loaf because of all the trouble getting there, but the crumb is getting closer to what I'm trying to achieve.


Haven't cut into the loaf pan yet, but it released with no problems and looks like it got a decent rise as well. I also finished this one on a stone, but feel like it should've come out of the pan a bit sooner. Final temperature was ~200f on both loaves.


I would feel like I was getting it all worked out if I had gotten the same texture after bulk that I did in the past, I believe I did the math right but I've converted the recipe to 1k flour and from there to a 1.2 k flour for the two loaves...

1200g dark rye (finely milled)

1008g h2o

288g starter (I did 40/125/125)

handful of altus

27g salt

20g bread spices

My guess is that I should have mixed the starter differently...maybe 20/135/135? About 12 hours in ~ 70f house did not float in water when I added it. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I never use a banneton with this recipe.  Too wet and the dough is too delicate to "flip" it.  Begging for collapse.  :)

I wait a few hours after mixing  (covered bowl) and then spoon the rising paste into a well buttered and floured/seeded/or crumbed  form, be it the cold DO or a loaf pan.  If you want to shape it into a log, use a well floured or seeded cloth spooning the dough into a long pile.  Use the towel to roll the log into the seeds to coat and give a log shape.  After removing the loaf, any remaining seeds can be shaken off the towel and put back into the container.  

Give it a nice domed shape with a wet spatula or scraper and let it rise about 1/3.  Always butter the lids, like golf, if you hit the ball correctly for the conditions and with the right club, it will fly where you want it to go.  If you find sticking a problem, the dough is not done and should be baked longer in the form.  I tend to go for 205°F internal temp. with my thermometer.

Another method is to line the bread pan with baking parchment paper and spoon in the half risen rye paste.  Let it rise a and bake before any bubbles break on the surface. To remove is so much easier if you want to continue baking on the stone or rack without the pan.  You can also wet the parchment and shape in the pan, let it dry before adding dough.

And make sure that starter is very active and maybe a little more mature than you would a wheat starter.  Let it peak.  I don't float it.  I taste it for sour (if not let it sour longer) to make sure there is enough acid in the starter to give the additional rye flour more elasticity  and I make sure it has peaked and has pushed past double at room temps.  

I won't be held responsible if the loaf rises higher than an inch in the oven :)  give it plenty of space just in case.  :)  

By the way, the torn crumb looks very nice, very nice indeed!  Good even temps all around as well. in both loaves.

Wait a few days before slicing and freezing, giving the crumb moisture to balance before freezing.  When frozen too soon, slices tend to be dry and crumbly on the outside, wet heavy in the middle.  

Oh and get those bread spices into the dough early on to soften the seeds and get more flavour (not with the salt).  Best is to put them into the building starter.   Try more altus, about a handful per half kilo of flour. 

If you need more room in the DO try using a double sheet of foil and shape over the bottom of the DO. Use this as a tent pinching tightly onto the rim of the DO before baking.

OH, oh, oh  ... if you wanna see that loaf pan rise like the DO, put it also early into the preheating oven.  You see as rye matrix warms, it stretches like crazy.  It is rather temperature sensitive and stiffer than wheat flour at room temps of 75°F and below.

jimt's picture

Thank you so much Mini! That's all very helpful and I'm really looking forward to next weeks bake. The pan loaf came out very nice...I waited two days from the bake to cut into it and was pleasantly surprised just now when cutting into it. The aroma is very nice and I really like the texture. I'm definitely looking forward to my dinner this evening.

dabrownman's picture

Well done and happy baking 

jimt's picture

Thank you sir! It really is delicious and hopefully with the tips I've been given it will improve even more on the next round.