The Fresh Loaf

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Converting Babka Recipe to Sourdough...

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Converting Babka Recipe to Sourdough...

I'd imagine something along these lines has been covered before, but either way, just wondering if I could pick your brains, especially with Easter just around the corner...

I have a really old family recipe (pre-WW2) for a traditional Polish babka, but it's always left something to be desired. To my palate it tastes too yeasty and the texture has a tendency to be rather crumbly. Occasionally I've ended up with a very buttery brick. Over the years I've played around with the quantities and type of yeast used (fresh, dried active), but I've never quite managed to hit the sweet spot with it - as the recipe is 80-odd years old, I'm working under the assumption that it was written with fresh cake yeast in mind. Given the problems I've had with it, I usually just end up baking Panettone instead as it's a reasonable substitute...

Am thinking that converting the babka to sourdough might help with the taste & texture.The ingredients (for a full quantity) are as follows:

500g flour

150g sugar

250 ml single cream or full cream milk

6 egg yolks (I use 3 whole eggs if I don't want to waste egg whites)

40g yeast

100g butter, melted

vanilla, lemon zest

pinch of salt

150g raisins or sultanas

The babka is made using the sponge method, where the yeast is creamed with with the cream or milk and a couple of spoons of the sugar before adding 100g of the flour. That's left to rise for a bit before combining with the rest of the ingredients, dolloping into a mould (it's a fairly soft, sticky dough) and leaving to rise before baking in a hot oven.

Given the above method, I am assuming that I can ditch the yeast entirely, then take, 50g say, of my 100% hydration (rye) starter and use this to make a levain with the 100g of flour and the 250ml of milk / cream. I'd leave this for 8-12 hours in a cool place before making the dough. The other aspect is do I give it the single rise like in the original recipe? Or do I go for the bulk ferment & proof like I would for sourdough bread?

Is this feasible? Or am I likely to fall flat on my face?

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

25 g of starter too with 100 g of flour and 100 g of milk too for a single stage levain of 8-12 hours depending on how strong your rye starter is.

This is the perfect recipe for Yeast Water by the way.  It cures the crumbly crumb but keeps it sweet and lovely.

B…..B….B…. Babka - the Yeast Water Way to Gugelhuph Land

Half poolish and half YW is good too.

Poolish & Y W Chocolate Walnut Easter Babka with Streusel & Snockered Fruits

Happy babka baking

Reynard's picture
Reynard

My starter is pretty vigorous, but with all the butter, eggs and fruit in the dough want to make sure I don't end up with another brick... ;-) At least I know I wasn't spouting complete nonsense - the Baking Supervisors have been giving me those steely-eyed glares when I even suggested it.

I'll have to look into YW though - never really considered it before...

trailrunner's picture
trailrunner

Was just going to say to use yeast water in the levain or even sub for some of the rich cream milk in order to get a soft tender lasting crumb. I find all yeast sweet breads like Babka etc to be stale WAY to soon. Hot Cross Buns are like that too. Great hot out of the oven and then,,,,meh. So get it on with the yeast water and get a fresh soft babka going. Good Luck and please do post back the results. c

tptak's picture
tptak

Hey, just wondering...

The description you gave - yeasty and crumbly - sounds like a yeast babka, no more no less. Do you remember anyone making it and having it taste differently?

If you don't like the way it works, and still want the Polishness on the Easter table, perhaps try babka piaskowa (sand cake): http://www.bestpolishrecipes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:babka&catid=46:cakes&Itemid=200

Just don't add sand ;)

Reynard's picture
Reynard

It's meant to fall apart the minute you touch it though... Being able to slice it would be really nice ;-)

My dad only ever made it once. He used 40g of dried active yeast in the dough and decided he could have a nap while it was rising. By the time he woke up, the mix had escaped the bowl and was in the process of leaving the kitchen entirely... :-p

The best babki drozdzowe ones I had were made by a Polish bakery near where I grew up in London, but that place has long since gone... They were not quite as yeasty, with a lovely sweet glaze and you could "squish" them...

I use a piaskowa mix for my baranek wielkanocny ;-) Or a bog-standard victoria sponge...

tptak's picture
tptak

...I could convince my wife to make one for you (but in April, I'm afraid), or at least to have a look at this recipe.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

But alas I'm in northeast Cambridgeshire - although I was raised a Gooner...

You got me thinking though, and I've compared it to more modern recipes online. In terms of quantities, ingredients are pretty much of a muchness with the exception of yeast and salt.

The modern recipes have got much less yeast and far more salt, namely a teaspoon of dried yeast (~7g) and half a teaspoon of salt (~3.5g) as opposed to 40g of fresh yeast and a mere pinch of salt. I suspect therein lies the difference - and quite possibly the solution i.e. less of a more efficient yeast and a larger quantity of a yeast inhibitor...

Though if your missus has any good tips, I'd love to hear them :-)

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

My daughter just moved from here (West Coast of Canada) to Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire. We're coming over to visit this autumn. I'm thinking I should do a Fresh Loafian tour! I lived just west of London for six years so have lots of friends and rellies to visit as well. I may bring some sourdough starter with me. I don't think I could live without good bread for the length of the visit.

tptak's picture
tptak

Maybe you should do the tour and rely on fresh loafers' bread hospitality? :) could make quite some story to tell.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

That's not a million miles away - I'm just north of Ely...

Did my undergrad (Mechanical Engineering) at Brunel University's Uxbridge campus, so west London isn't an alien place either.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

In our case, we were between Slough and Maidenhead (Cippenham, actually). Uxbridge not far away! I was in West Drayton when I first went to the UK. Walked along the canal almost to Uxbridge one day. :)

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Had digs in West Drayton. Used to stay there overnight sometimes when I was running stress analysis computer sims and couldn't be bothered to travel back to my place. (I did mechanical Engineering with Automotive...)

tptak's picture
tptak

For now she said she would bake for you :) I'll show her the recipe later.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

To hear her opinion on the recipe :-)

But do tell her that as every girl knows when it comes to cake, a moment on the lips is a lifetime on the hips... Just trying to be traditional without succumbing to horrendous temptation LOL

Stuart Borken's picture
Stuart Borken

Bobka is a sweet dough cake/bread made with fillings of sugar and chocolate and cinnamon and other sweet fillings.  It should not have a sour component as part of the dough....I obviously have feelings about this issue.  I love bobka and always bring one to any synagogue get together.  I make the one from the cook book, "Jerusalem" by Ottolenghi and Tamimi.

 

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Exactly where you're coming from, Stuart.

But I have to confess that my sourdough culture doesn't produce a sour bread at all - if it wasn't for the texture, you'd be hard pressed to tell it was sourdough. If my culture produced a sour-tasting loaf, I don't think I'd have wondered if a sourdough babka was a viable alternative to a yeasted one... ;-)

I do think it's worth a punt at least. If it doesn't work, I can mark it down as a bad idea. ;-)

Stuart Borken's picture
Stuart Borken

I have been called, "snarky", so, I really am so pleased that you did not take my comment negatively.  I love to bake and have been making sourdough products since 1968 when the military took me away from California and my ready source of fabulous sourdough breads.  In all these years I never have been able to duplicate that special bread.  So, I went into another direction...King Arthur Kalamata Olive, Rosemary, Whole Wheat and Corn Meal bread, and a traditional honey challah, then New York Jewish Deli Style Onion Caraway Rye bread, and finally, really really great bagels.

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Or had the same opinions on things, then the world would be a very boring place :-) There's no reason to reject an equally valid opinion simply because it's different...

You've been baking since well before I was a gleam in my mother's eye. That's some going :-) Me? I've just about been baking bread seriously for about a year, so a relative beginner. Fell into it purely by accident as a result of a miscalculated grocery shop and not wanting to do a 10-mile round trip for just for bread. (Ah, the joys of living in the middle of nowhere...) Am still exploring the possibilities, though am partial to the wholegrain sourdoughs and crusty french-style loaves that go so well with cured meats, smoked fish and strong cheeses :-)

My friends know me better for my cakes and pastries, however...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

drivers and cat lover :-)  Not really ...but really!

Reynard's picture
Reynard

Sci-fi geekette amongst other things as well ;-)

I'm going to give the sourdough version a try, but one of these days you'll have to tutor me in the art of YW...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

down the road to YW.  I'm a sucker for anytiong sci-fi but I havenlt seen the new Star Wars yet.

YW Primer

Reynard's picture
Reynard

I'll check that out and have a go after the hols.

Not seen the new Star Wars film either - waiting for it to come out on DVD and find its way into Computer Exchange ;-) Much cheaper that way, and a good way of avoiding cinemas with screaming ankle-biters... Remember how nuts it was when I went to see the Phantom Menace.

Am currently revisiting original series Trek. Every girl needs her dose of Mr Spock every now and again ;-)

Reynard's picture
Reynard

And is well under way - with half a quantity of dough. Fewer things will go to waste if things go pear-shaped...

Made my levain last night with 50g of the flour, 125ml of milk and 30g of my rye starter. It took a while to get going, but was nice and bubbly when I woke up this morning.

Used that in place of the yeast sponge the recipe requires, and proceeded as per instructions. The dough is currently in its tin in a plastic bag in the hallway (which is where I bulk ferment my bread - it's around 15C in there). It is starting to rise, but I don't expect it to be oven-ready until about 10pm tonight.

Did notice the difference in taste when I licked the bowl out after, but it was really nice, and not sour at all...

Will keep y'all posted :-)

semolina_man's picture
semolina_man

Agree with Stuart Borken.  Babka = not sour.  If the recipe is brick like, reduce the flour to increase the hydration.  To me babka is something like challa but with fillings and a streusel topping.   I am most familiar with Jewish style babka from the lower east side of NYC.  Should be on the list of Intangible Cultural Heritage! ;) 

Reynard's picture
Reynard

A Polish babka is a completely different animal to what you're describing - that's more like a strucla or ciasto zawiane ;-)

What I mean by a babka is closer to an italian panettone, but somewhat less perfumed.

Since switching the original recipe to sourdough and longer rising times, I've (touch wood) no longer had any bricks ;-)