new to bread: troubleshooting sourdough
Hi everyone! So i got a great desem sourdough starter which is absolutely delicious. My first loaf of bread was awesome although it didnt look pretty. Had a great texture and great flavor. Cool, all excited. problem 1: it rose, the crust dried out and the inside seemed to have fallen in. it was still yummy though.
I put my starter in the fridge, fed, so that i could make bread once a week. come friday, i take it out, feed it, make my bread, let it proof overnight. (Im in az and it gets cool at night so i leave it in the oven with the pilot light on, covered with a damp cloth)
Come saturday morning my bread rose and problem 2 it stuck to the wet cloth i had over it to keep the top from drying out! This bread was so bad its still sitting there.
All discouraged i try again yesterday and im super hopeful. I fed my starter three times after the fridge. It was nice and warm. All happy. question 1- how soon after feeding it should I use it?
I watched a bunch of videos, read more info, checked the proof and in the oven it went. I let it cool and tried it this morning. no pockets, dense, low flavor. Did i not let it rise enough? How do i know if it rose enough? I even kneeded it really well.
now im feeling very discouraged and ready to give up. Or at least just make crepes and pizza crust bc thats all thats come oit good so far.
First of all, if you have already managed to produce a nice tasting losf, you are certainly on your way to making consistently good bread.
Here are my tips:
After feeding your starter, make sure that it is fully developed- is bubbly and has doubled or tripled. Depending on the ratios you are using for feeding, this can take from 4 to 12 hours. I feed my starter typically by using 1 ounce starter to 2 ounces of flour and 2 ounces of water. I leave it at room temperature and it seems mature in about 5 hours.
Then you have 3 days to use it for a bread dough after the feeding. I usually put the starter in the refrigerator and use it right from the refrigerator within 3 days. Most of the recipes that I use then have you make a larger levain from this that will work at room temperature from 8 to 14 hours, depending on the formula.
When you are covering your dough while it is fermenting or proofing, I suggest using plastic wrap that you spray or spread with oil. You can also dust the top of the loaves with a bit of flour.
One more thing. It really helps to get a good book to lead you through all of the steps. The Bread Baker's Apprentice is a good book to start with, and I would guess that most libraries would have it.
I hope this helps. Don't give up!
Caryn
Thanks! Is there a difference for the ffeed ratios? I weigh my ingredients on a scale and use 1 part starter, 1 part flour, 1 part water. And i will for sure look into that book! Thanks!
If you feed the starter using the ratio o 1:1:1, the starter will most likely develop faster. I think varying the ratio just changes the length of time that the starter will develop. The more flour and water it is fed, the longer it takes to develop. I think the only reason that I have stuck with the ratio 1:2:2 is that my starter always works well that way, and I only have to feed it once every week or two for it to stay active. I try to Fred it at least every 2 weeks and then bake within 3 days of the feed.
And if you provide details of recipe used and procedure, including times and temperatures, that will help us help you to troubleshoot. With an overnight fermentation or proofing in a warm spot, you may well be overproofing, which could cause a whole range of problems. Give us exhaustive details, please. Fresh loafers love nothing better than forensic analysis.
Ive been trying to post pics but i cant :( this is the recipe i followed but i think i only added 1/2 cup of water. Could that be it? I kneaded for 20 min and it passed the window pane test. I let rise till doubled in size (~2 hrs) it passed the push test (i poked it and it puffed up real quick) i baked it but it didnt rise much after i baked it (is it supposed to?) I wish i could add a picture. Theres no nice big bubble pockets from the yeast.
Here is the lnk to the recipe i used
http://www.culturesforhealth.com/how-to-make-sourdough-bread
Desem2015- I think the key is that you need to make sure that your starter is active. When you feed it, it should double or triple in a few hours if you are feeding it 1:1:1. I looked at that recipe. It calls for a lot of sourdough. You need to make sure you have some active starter and feed it gradually until you have a large volume of very active starter, then use it for the dough soon. The other thing is that the fermentation (rising as dough) and proofing (rising in shaped dough) can take 2 to 3 hours and should not be rushed.
Caryn
....that turns out the way you like? If so, then you need a different sourdough bread recipe to follow. If not, I'd suggest two things. Measure by weight, not volume, and start with a simple, yeast bread recipe such as featured in the Lessons section here on the FL. Master that recipe and build your baking experience from there. (although it would be nice if the Lessons started with weight, not volume measurements. It's much harder for beginners to get consistent results with volume.)
Also, my understanding of the 'poke test' is that you are looking for the dent in the dough to fill slowly and not quite completely. Bouncing back instantly indicates dough is underproofed, not yet ready to bake. If that's what you are getting after an overnight proofing then that dough might not have enough oomph to rise during the bake, and yes, wheat breads, as opposed to high percentage ryes, should 'spring' in the oven. .
Hang in there. Judging readiness to bake can be tricky, but you'll get it eventually.
Another thought, desem refers to a whole wheat starter iirc, and desem bread is all whole wheat flour. Are you in fact trying to make 100% whole wheat bread? If so, it will naturally be stodgier and have fewer big holes in the crumb unless you use very high hydration and heroic efforts toward gluten development.
according to your poke test, yup, thats what it did. Still had a slight little dent in it. And yes I do use whole wheat, freshly ground. And I measure out my sourdough by mass but many recipes call for volume :(
As for your heroic efforts towards gluten development, what can I do for that? And what do you mean by high hydration? (I've come across 70% hydration, 100% hydration....what does this mean??)
The hydration is simply the water weight divided by the total flour weight expressed as a percent. A recipe that calls for 1000g of flour and 800g of water has a hydration of 80%; a ;starter that is made using 1 part flour and 1 part water is 1/1 or 100%.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/2960/posting-photos-faq