How do I get a softer crust?
I am trying to bake a soft sandwich loaf from sourdough, using this recipe: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2011/07/14/soft-sandwich-sourdough/ but I don't have any powdered milk, so I leave that out. Also, I usually am scaling the recipe to make more than it calls for, and using a slightly higher hydration. The recipe makes about a 64% hydration dough, and I usually keep mine at about 70% hydration (counting only the flour and water, because I don't know how to calculate the other ingredients for hydration). It almost always turns out wonderful bread, but the crust is thick, and when I store it, it turns tough. I was wondering if there is a way to get a lighter (as in thinner) crust on my bread, or at least a crust that is not tough. Is that little bit of milk powder the magic ingredient that does that? I know I've read that milk does make the bread softer, because it inhibits some of the gluten formation. Help me out here, please! Susan, if you happen to be around, tell me what I'm doing wrong with your recipe!
One thing I have already tried is baking at a lower temp for a longer time. I've also tried baking with and without steam.
To get a soft crust, brush the dough, just after shaping, with melted butter, and, after it has risen, spray with water before putting it in the oven. Use steam in the oven, (a pan of boiling water under the baking shelf). Whe the loaf is baked, brush the crust with melted butter an cover with plastic wrap as it cools. When coo,l package it in a plastic bag.
If you add butter to the recipe and use milk instead of water, the crumb will also be wonderfully soft. If you wish, I'll send you my recipe.
Ford
Hi Ford!
im new in the bread baking world and I'm trying to make my own bread for my whole family but I haven't got good results on the recipes I've been following.
Is it possible for me to get a copy of your recipe as well? I know it's been a long time since you posted this mess Thanks!
i meant message, not mess!! I'm sorry my cellphone it's crazy!
White Sourdough Bread[19 sl./lf., 1/2" sl., 47 g, 110 cal, 3.3 g prot, 2.0 g fat, 19.3 g carb.]
3 cups (27 oz., 255 g) refreshed sourdough starter (100% hydration), at 70 to 80°F
3 3/4 cups (32 oz., 907 g) tepid scalded milk (skim ©)
11 to 11 1/3 cups (46.8 to 48 oz., 1327 to 1361 g) bread flour*
1 1/2 Tbs. (1 oz., 28 g) salt
1/4 cup (2 oz.. 56 g) butter (or corn oil ©)
1/4 cup (2 oz., 56 g) melted butter (or corn oil ©) to brush dough, to grease pans, and to brush bread
water in a sprayer
*Note: for part of the bread flour, you may use 1/2 cup (2.1 oz.) whole-wheat flour, and/or 1/2 cup (1.7 oz.) oat meal (rolled oats), pulverized to a flour, to modify the flavor and texture of the bread. Decrease flour appropriately, say by 1/2 cup (2.1 oz.).
~75% hydration. 3 loaves @ ~36 oz. unbaked, ~34 oz. baked.
For the poolish, combine the refreshed, room temperature starter with the milk, half the bread flour, and, if used, oat flour and/or whole-wheat flour. Let this sit for about thirty minutes for the flour to absorb the water and to ferment. Long fermentation time is not required for sourdough. Over fermentation can mean the loss of structure by the acid attacking the gluten.
For the dough, mix in the quarter cup of melted butter, salt, and as much of the remaining flour as can be mixed with a spoon. Turn out on to a floured surface and knead in as much flour as it takes to make a soft, non-sticky dough. The stretch and fold method of kneading will work. Place the dough in an oiled bowl, cover, and allow it to double in volume. With stretch and fold the dough has already doubled by the last rest.
Brush melted butter around the inside of three 5”x 8” loaf pans. Again, turn out the dough on to the floured surface and divide into three equal parts. Shape the dough into loaves and place them into the loaf pans. Brush each loaf with melted butter. Cover with plastic wrap and let them rise until the dough comes well above the top of the pans, about 2 hours.
Preheat the oven to 450°F. Place a broiler pan of boiling water on the shelf below the baking shelf. Slash each loaf with a greased razor blade or a very sharp knife, making a quarter inch deep cut. Spray the loaves with a mist of water and place them on the middle shelf of the oven. Spray the loaves two more times in the oven at two-minute intervals. After fifteen minutes, remove the pan of water, set the oven temperature to 350°F, and bake for an additional 40 minutes or until the interior temperature of the loaf reaches 195°F.
Turn the loaves on to a cake rack and brush all sides with melted butter. Cover with plastic wrap. Allow the loaves to cool before cutting or wrapping. The loaves may then be frozen, if desired.
White Sourdough Bread (Pan de Mie)This bread is much lighter than the normal sourdough white loaf, about 47% by weight.
For the Levain
15 g starter (100% hydration)
24 g scalded milk
46 g bread flour (King Arthur)
(Day - 1) Mix and let ferment for 12 hours at about 75°F. 59% hydration.
Final Dough
All of the levain, above
164 g scalded milk
127 g bread flour (KA)
100 g all-purpose flour (KA)
14 g sugar
5 g salt
14 g melted butter, cooled to 80°F
melted butter for brushing loaf.
(Day – 2) Mix together levain, milk, flours, and sugar. Autolyse for 30 minutes. Add the salt and knead with a dough hook on a mixer until the gluten is well developed. Add the butter and continue to mix to develop the gluten. This intensive kneading (about 15 minutes) is the key to getting a soft crumb with the proper volume. Get a strong windowpane test
Bulk rise for 2 hours. Fold, cover, and place in the refrigerator overnight
(Day 3) Shape the dough and place in a well buttered standard 9 5/8 x 5 ½ x 2 ¼ loaf pan, seam side down. Spread melted butter over the dough. Cover and let rise at about 75°F for about 6 hours – dough should come about one inch above the top of the pan.
Bake in a preheated oven at 375°F for about 45 minutes, or until the interior temperature is 195°F. Immediately remove the bread from the pan, brush with melted butter, and cool.
After cooling, package in an air-tight package. Bread may be frozen or refrigerated.
~ 70% hydration One loaf
Modified from TxFarmer, 16 Nov 2010, thefreshloaf.com
Thank you so much!
i would like to add some fiber to the bread. Do you think I can replace any flour (all purpose or bread flour) for whole wheat flour?
I don't want to bother you but, do you have any recipe for whole wheat bread?
thanks again!
Viri
Yes you may substitute whole wheat for some or all of theAll-Purpose flour in either recipe.
Here is a recipe that I have used for the heavier bread:
Whole-Wheat (50%) Sourdough Bread3 cups (27 oz., 756 g) refreshed whole wheat sourdough starter (100% hydr.), at 70 to 80°F
4 cups (17 oz., 482 g) whole-wheat flour, King Arthur brand, finely milled*
4 cups (34.0 oz., 964 g) 80°F scalded milk
(1 cup [3.3 oz., 94 g] oat meal, pulverized to a flour, optional, decrease flour by 3/4 cup [3.1 oz])
1/3 cup (3.8 oz., 108 g) honey, or brown sugar, or corn syrup
~7 cups (~29.8
1/4 cup (2 oz., 56 g) melted butter (or corn oil ©)
1 1/2 Tbs. (1 oz., 28 g) salt
1/4 cup (2 oz., 56 g) melted butter (or corn oil ©) for brushing dough and the baked bread~78% hydration.
~50% whole wheat flour. 3 loaves: ~38 oz. each unbaked, ~36 oz. baked.
if white wheat flour starter is used then bread is 41% whole wheat.*If you use stone ground, coarsely milled, whole-wheat flour (Arrowhead Mills), then use 3 1/2 cups, still 17 oz.
For the soaker, combine milk, honey, whole-wheat flour, salt, quarter cup of melted butter and optional oat flour in a large bowl. Cover and let sit about thirty minutes, or more, to soften the bran, allow the flour grains to absorb water. The milk may be added hot and the soaker allowed to stand overnight in the refrigerator
For the dough, mix the soaker, the refreshed, room temperature starter. Blend in as much bread flour as can be mixed with a spoon. Turn out on to a floured surface, knead well, working in only as much of the flour as to give a non-tacky dough. The dough will not be as elastic as the white bread dough. Place in an oiled bowl, cover, and allow to ferment for an hour or more, then gently degas the dough by folding it on itself. Do not over proof or the gluten structure will be compromised.
Brush melted butter around the inside of three 5”x 8” loaf pans. Again, place the dough on the floured surface and divide into three equal parts. Shape the dough into loaves and place them into the loaf pans. Brush each loaf with melted butter. Cover with plastic wrap and let them rise until the dough comes well above the top of the pans, about 2 to 3 hours. Do not keep the dough at room temperature for long periods as the acid in the sourdough may break down the gluten strands.
Preheat the oven to 450°F. Place a broiler pan of boiling water on the shelf below the baking shelf. Slash each loaf with a greased razor blade or a very sharp knife, making a quarter inch deep cut. Spray the loaves with a mist of water and place them on the middle shelf of the oven. Spray the loaves two more times in the oven at two-minute intervals. After fifteen minutes, set the oven temperature to 350°F and remove the pan of water. Bake for an additional 40 minutes or until the interior temperature of the loaf reaches 195 to 200°F.
Turn the loaves on to a cake rack and brush all sides with melted butter. Cover with plastic wrap. Allow the loaves to cool before cutting or wrapping. The loaves may then be frozen, if desired.
I have found, as I have gained experience in handling the dough, I have been able to work with slacker dough, i. e. dough of higher hydration. The slacker dough will produce a lighter loaf. (Over proofing will produce a craggy surface and something resembling a doorstop,)
Ford
Thank you so much!
i would like to add some fiber to the bread. Do you think I can replace any flour (all purpose or bread flour) for whole wheat flour?
I don't want to bother you but, do you have any recipe for whole wheat bread?
thanks again!
Viri
See above.
Ford
las time I made bread I followed your instructions for a soft crust and it came out so good! I was very pleased with the results. Thank you so much!
Viri
Hello,
The comment was taken from your reply on the web of Softcrust and crumb. If you add butter to the recipe and use milk instead of water, the crumb will also be wonderfully soft. If you wish, I'd like you to send me the recipe. I am new to sourdough bread making. I have learned to keep my home made sourdough starter going on the counter and also in the frig. I recently made the multi-grained Sourdough bread that takes 3 days to make and it has the most wonderful sour dough flavor but the crust is to hard for me to chew. I cut it off to eat it. I don't have a stone but did spray it with water when I put it in the oven. Is there something like an apple or orange to put in the bread bag to soften the crust. I would love to try your recipe. Also any humidifier tricks without ruining my gas oven.
Thank you so much,
JoAnn Hellenbrand
Thanks, Ford. I'll take you up on that offer to send me your recipe. I love a crispy crust on bread, but for sandwiches, I want a softer crust. My crumb is plenty soft and has a "cool" texture. Just the crust is thick and crunchy when I bake it, and it turns tough when stored. One thing I haven't tried that might do the trick, is covering for the first part of the bake. I don't have anything to cover with, but I guess I could make an aluminum foil tent or something. Would that help at all?
will soften it considerably. Try just substituting milk for the water and see what you get before you complicate the rest of the process too much. I like keeping things simple!
Sorry, posted this in the wrong place - meant to reply to the OP, not meant to dispute Ford's advice!!
It's in the mail. Check your messages, this site.
See the recipes above.
(fruit allowed to ferment in water until effervescent) will also give you the same qualities as a milk bread. Look up: Yeast water
Potato water in the recipe (cut up small potato, boil and mash with the cooking water & use as liquids) will also soften crusts while cooling from the oven. Draping the racked loaf with a thin cloth may also help being careful not to let the water condense on the crust.
Could also cool, slice and freeze the bread to thaw out later keeping crusts moist not giving them a chance to dry out and get tough.
besides the info above, i just brush the baked bread with milk as it comes out of the oven. That is usually all it takes. You can also scald milk or use dry milk powder in bread so it won't affect any of the enzymes or yeast during fermentation or gluten development.
happy baking.
Hi, why does one need to scald the milk first please? I'm a newbie, so forgive me.
be confusing. It's pretty self explanatory. Scalding milk would be if you decided to use milk in the bread dough itself to soften the crust. :)
bread recipe is that there is a compound in milk which can contribute to the breakdown of gluten strands in the dough, leading to a more dense crumb and less rise. Pasteurizing doesn't raise the temperature of the milk for long enough to denature the compound, so you will see recommendations to always scald milk (actually, any dairy product, including milk powders that are not labelled as being "for baking").
With that said, there are a lot of conflicting opinions about it these days, with a good proportion of resources saying that there is no need to scald. Personally, I don't bother scalding pasteurized dairy products or my cheap and convenient dried milk powder before using them, and haven't had any problem that is noticeable to me. I realize that it's just personal anecdote and not evidence, but I'm a home baker and not a scientist!
A couple of older threads discuss this: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12076/why-milk-powder-milk-bread-and-not-just-milk and http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/25719/milk-bread-making
In my experience, adding even a small amount of potato (leftover mashed potatoes from dinner work fine) softens both the crust and crumb considerably.