This is how I finally have open crumbs and ears using high heat (500F)
Updated 9/29/2010
Updated: 9/15/2010 I want to introduce Edwin's recipe( pipo1000) that is absolutely phenomenal.
http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/recipe-for-80-hydration-baguette/
Next time, I want to try dragon trail pattern for my baguette. That is fantastic!
I will thank you all of TFLERS who gave me great comments to me. I hope my recipe will help you out or give you some good ideas to have a nice baguette that you desire! And I applogize what I often edit my recipes that cause trouble to you have gotten bunch of e-mail of my recipes that is very annnoying. I am sorry.(bow)
Hello, Everyone. I introduce myself a little bit. I am a foreigner (Japanese) who can't speak or write English very well. My husband who is American said " My wife barely speaks English!" Well, It is true, I am not a big fan of talking to people.Thats why my Enlgish hasn't improved yet. I will appreciate if you correct my English when you find. And I love dogs!!! :) I have 2 dogs who are both of two half Chihuahua and half poodle a brother (2 year old) Chi-chi, and his sister (1year old) Cookie although their mothers are different. I have lived in Newyork with my husband and 2 children my son (12years old) and my daugher ( 4 years old) for 6 years.
Back to the topic, For several month,I have been into baking french bread as much as my family call me " FRENCH BREAD HEAD".:) But I broke the inner glass of the oven once which means " NO MORE POURING WATER IN THE OVEN". then next time I broke its element twice so that I can't preheat 500F anymore. I had had no luck to bake nice baguettes that have nice ears and glooms.
Thanks to RobynNZ who gave me some information to make steam without pouring water, even though I couldn't try it because it costs too much for me, and I finally figure it out on my way. Cover 2 blocks with foil and place them on the second lowest rack. That is it. It is very easy and keep the tempareture stable.
This is how I bake baguettes.
And, This is my recipe: 1 baguette ( Approximately 40cm long)
Preferment (Day 1)
Yeast 1/4tsp (0.8g)
cold water 76g
All purpose flour 95g
Final dough (Day 2)
Yeast 1/4tsp (0.8g)
cold water 76g
All purpose flour 95g
Salt 3g
*Barley malt powder 1g ( you need it when your flour doesn't contain barley malted flour)
Tools: A baguette pan, 2 blocks covered with foil for lower oven,
Parchment paper
I strongly recommend to read this link before you make this baguette or any baguettes or any bread! I got these important information from Vogel who is one of TFLERS. I really apprecicate your help. Thank you, Vogel.
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/82234-demo-proving-bread/
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15368/second-rise-proofing-tests
I start to shape when my test-dough rises about 1.1 times in bulk and I prepare to score my baguette when the test-dough rises 1.3 times in bulk.
1 Mix the preferment and sit for 1 -2 hours at room temperature ( When you see 2 big holes in the surface, it is ready to put it in a refirgerator. You don't have to wait until 1.5 times in bulk )
2 hours later
→Mix again, Refrigerator for over night.( about 12 hours in total)
2 Next morning: Add the final dough: yeast and cold water into the preferment→ Mix→ Put the rest of ingredient: flour and salt
3 Put the dough in a food processor to run for 5 second until combine.
Take the dough out of the FP
4 Let's knead: Stretch and fold!
and turn the dough angle 90 degree, and repeat and repeat.... (around 1-2 minutes) You will feel the dough has gluten development. Don't do too much! * I think that you can stroke it too.
5. Put the dough in a greased bowl and covere it with a plastic wrap.
6. Strech and fold -3hours fementation.
0:45 ---2 folds in a bowl
1:30----2 folds in a bowl.
2:15 ---- 2 folds in a bowl.
---There are 2 fold above-----
7. 3:00 ( 3 hours later) shape: Take the dough out of the container , degas lightly ( patting the dough 2 or 3 times)
Pull the both sides from the center very gently.
Using a dough cutter, lift the edge on your side( bottom) and...
bring it to the center.
Next, Lift the edge on your over side ( top)
bringing it to your side ( bottom ) and pinch very lightly
take the seam line onto the center..
Take the dough on your over side (top) toward the dough on your side ( bottom) and pinch very well.
Roll the dough using a dough cutter.
Place the dough onto a parchment paper.
9. Proof for 20-30 minutes. Please read this to get the right time for proofing.( 26-28℃ or 79-82F)
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/82234-demo-proving-bread/
10. Scoring and spray water to the pan, the back of the pan, and the parchmentpaper is not on dough: I don't spray the dough, I am avoiding to spary water to the dough now.
Prepare Flour, Greased razor with shortening, Spray water bottle, and the ziplock is shortening inside( I was squeezing into the cuts after scoring to have ears and glooms. )
11. Bake for 7 minutes at 470F → Decrease 450F bake for 3 minutes→ Take out the pan and the parchment paper →Decrease 450F and bake 10 more minutes →Shut off the oven and open the door for a few second and leave the baguette for 5 minutes.
----- Let's make a pan for baguette at home--------
You need---
a) Cardboard after using wrapping paper.
b) Foil
c) Stapler
Let's make it----
1) Get a cardboard after using wrapping paper.
2) Cut the cardboard in a half and cut more ajust to fit for your bagutte dough. Do the same thing for another one.
3) Cover the cardboard with foil. Do the same thing for another one.
4) Staple onto the foiled cardboards both ends and the middle.
You can slide it into the oven!!
!! The side which you slide it in must be really smooth and flat like this picture.!!
Now (9/27/2010) I upgraded the homemade pan:
I made a lot of holes for the dough to breath when you place the dough onto the canvas or cloth.
. 
Even High hydration dough will keep the shape until you slide it into the oven. Don't forget to score very close to straight in the center that is for withour using a stored bagutte pan that you can put it in the oven.( keep the dough round! When you draw the line diagonally a lot, it will spread over the side and the dough will be flatten. Be careful! * Note* When you use a stored pan, you better score diagonally slightly.
-------OR-------
When you use a cloth for such high hydration dough, I suggest you to have some nice supports for the dough like these pictures above)
Result : 0.4% yeast ( Poolish 1/8tsp, final dough 1/8tsp)
Result 0.8% yeast ( poolish 1/4tsp, final dough 1/4tsp )
I recommend these recipes below. Thank you, dmsnyder and Shiao-Ping and Tyarmer.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16213/mr-nippon039s-baguette-formulas by Shiao-Ping
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18813/poolish-baguette-sunflower-seeds by Tyarmer
Welcome, French bread head!
BEAUTIFUL crumb!
What advice did RobynNZ give you to make steam without pouring water?
Beautiful crumb.
Here is Robyn's advice. :) and Thank you for your reply :) that makes me happy.
Teketeke I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with your oven. I have an old but reliable oven and not wanting steam to damage it I use a large roasting tin to cover my bread at the beginning of the bake. There are grooves around the bottom and I add water to the outer groove and spray the sides and lid. As it is made of very thin material I do not preheat it. I find it safer to use without preheating too. Depending on what I am baking I generally remove the lid after about 15 minutes.
Khalid (MeBake) has posted photos of his set-up, he has even added a baking stone to the lid of his. Take a look:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18499/best-crust-and-crumb-yet-me
Others use a stainless steel bowl (search on TFL using "Susan's magic bowl"), but for baguettes, something longer is needed. I hope you can find something suitable for your oven to cover your baguettes, to provide steamy conditions at the beginning of the bake.
Have you seen Shiao-Ping's post on the baguettes she made from the Mandarin translation of the bookバゲットの技術 ?
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16213/mr-nippon039s-baguette-formulas
I am looking forward to shopping for bread baking books when I am next in Japan (and eating lots of yummy bread too!)
Robyn
spsq,
THANK YOU!!! Yes, I am " French bread head " :P
Thank you for your compliment !
To have nice crumb, It is very important to do 2 or 3 times letter-folds on a long cold fermention in my history of french bread head. And as TXfarmer said( Thank you, TXfarmer), I also don't strech or pat the dough much while shaping. I use a bread cutter to shape mostly because the dough is really wet.
:)
I baked my baguettes today again, but I am testing how the dough with molasses or malt vinegar take effect. I tried some condiments in it.
Only molasses 2g : less holes
Molasses2g + white wine vinegar1g =a lot of little small holes
Honey 2g + Malt vinegar1g = chewier than molasses + malt vinegar, thin crust,
Molasses 2g +Malt vinegar1g= thin crispy crust, more holes than any others,
Only salt =Silky texture, natural sweetness, little sourness, less holes than molasses + malt vinegar, thicker crust than molasses or honey + malt vinegar.
My husband likes "Only salt " best.
My neighbor who loves French bread likes "Molasses +Malt vinegar" and " Only salt", so do I. They are different but it is refreshing.
My kids prefer " Molasses + Malt vinegar".
I read about Malt vinegar has starch which gives chewy texture, and I can see " Molasses + Malt vinegar " will have a lot of holes. I don't know why .... I am not scientist, and I can't figure it out by my little brain :p I see that there are a lot of people who are very knowledgeable and intelligent here. Sometimes those comments make me sleepy...
Today's test:
1) Only salt: add 4g water in total which means 82% hydration.
2) Only malt vinegar 2g + add 2g water in total which means 82% hydration.
Result: Both of two dough's firmness are the same. They are so sticky to handle with.
The dough with molasses and malt vinegar are softer than them.
I think that the time of poolish's autolyze is 12 hours is the best. I felt that fresh silky texture from " only salt" disappeared today.
I prefer 80% hydration bread to 82% one. They were too wet, but they had very thin crust. I wonder if I leave the baguettes in the oven for 5 minutes after finishing baking that Dmsnyder mentioned. Anyway, I can't tell the answer, because I left the dough 3.5hours after mixing the final dough instead of 3 hours.
More and more I have many questions whenever I bake baguettes.
Left: Only salt
Right: Malt vinegar
Here is the way that I do before scoring. I put some shortening on the blade, and I squeeze the shortening in the edges after scoring.
and the result above:
Absolutely wonderful!
I look forward to more of your posts....
Thank you so much for your reply :) I showed this comment to my husband right away because I was too happy! and I am still happy :)
I will post some of my favortie japanese style bread recipes here.:P
Thank you again,
teketeke
Beautiful loaves. New to bread baking but already hooked. I'm going to bravely try this. Merci!
Thank you for your compliment,and I am looking forward to seeing your baguette's picture. :)
By the way, you might not understand Japanese even though you translate by google, You can understand how I bake the baguettes on the site because there are a lot of pictures. The shaping process is changed a little bit. I am not updating about the shaping process because I have no pictures to describe for. It is using a bread cutter to shape everything instead of using fingers and don't touch the dough too much, just very gentle....
here is my baguette's recipe in Japan ↓
http://cookpad.com/recipe/1168515
Good luck, evth
teketeke
Beautiful Bread!
You know when Professor Calvel was in his prime in his later years, some of his best students were from Japan. Today there are many very high quality chefs that make excellent French style bread in Japan.
Eric
:) I didn't know the Professor Calvel so then I jumped up to the google and there he is:
Raymond Calvel (before 1930 - 2005) was a bread expert and professor of baking at ENSMIC in Paris, France. Calvel has been credited with creating a revival of French-style breadmaking as well as developing an extensive body of research on improving breadmaking technique, including studies of the differences between European and American wheat flour and the development of the autolyse, a hydration rest early in the mixing and kneading process designed to relax gluten in the dough and simplify the kneading process, thereby rendering the dough more extensible and easier to shape.
He was Julia Child and Simone Beck's teacher for the bread chapter of Mastering the Art of French Cooking volume 2, as well as an advisor to the Bread Bakers Guild of America during its founding and early competitive efforts in the early 1990s. Calvel also wrote the book Le goût du pain (translated into English in 2001 as The Taste of Bread) as a summation of his work.
I learn every comments from you. And, it will be coincidence, I see a Japanese student girl on The Bread Baker's Apprentice. :P I noticed after buying the book.
I will learn to read your post!! Thank you so much for your reply!!!
Sincerely,
teketeke
Teketeke,
I'm glad you enjoyed the reference to Prof. Calvel. He is the source for much of the modern resurgence of French bread making in the world today. I have great respect for his work. It is interesting to me that he was so open with his methods and understanding with anyone who was interested in making better bread.
I also have that same book (BBA) and studied it carefully early on in my attempt to understand how good breads are made. Peter Reinhart has published several other books since this one that are equally helpful. I especially like his "Whole Grain Breads". He examines a process to extract flavor from whole grain flours that is beneficial to learn.
I look forward to seeing your posts and I am enjoying your open style of writing. This is a global forum, no need to apologize for your use of a second language. We are learning from you. Thank you!
Eric
Deleted by teketeke.
Hi Teketeke
Glad to hear you came up with a steaming system that works for you.
It is fun experimenting isn't it! Your baguette look delicious.
Looking forward to seeing some of your Japanese breads here, from what I've seen of your various breads on Cookpad, TFLers are going to be interested in your formula.
Robyn
RobynNZ,
Thank you for everything, Robyn!!
I wouldn't post here without your help!!! I have no confidence to expose my poor English to everyone who are knowlegdeable.
Well, I will try to post other my recipes that my family loves.
Thank you so much,
teketeke
I have to say something... even though my native language is not English (I am Brazilian), I think your written English is excellent!
I could only wish some of our foreign graduate students in the lab had similar skills with the language
We foreigners can make a few mistakes every once in a while and no one will be mad... ;-)
(at least that's what I hope for!)
And you are making lovely baguettes! The vinegar, malt vinegar is doing two things. Adding a sweetner and speeding up the rise in acid in the dough. Wet flour is not very acid but as we add yeast and it sits, the dough moves from being less acid to more acid. Vinegar is an acid and putting a little into the dough tells the yeast to get busy. Too much vinegar tells the yeasts to slow down.
You should keep track of room temperature in your notes. If the room is warm, 12 hours for a poolish can be too long. A cool room will slow down the yeast and a longer time for the poolish is needed. This can vary a lot as seasons change. I like to use 23°C or 74°F as the ideal or middle temperature and change the poolish time as the thermometer goes up or down.
Mini
This is an old recipe: I was using Malt vinegar 1/4tsp and Molasses 3g in the poolish. I don't use it anymore because It is better taste using salt only.
Wow, Now, I understand why 2g malt vinegar dough that I tested yesterday was flatten to compare to the other dough. And, 3g Molasses + 1g malt vinegar dough rises very well even while it is in the oven. :See below
>If the room is warm, 12 hours for a poolish can be too long.
I put the dough in the refrigerator after 2 hours of sitting at roomtemparture.
I should correct No.1 that is unclear.
1. Mix all poolish and sit for 2 hours at room temperature (２３℃ or 74F) until it swells to about 1.5 times its original size.
→Mix again →Refrigerator for over night. ( 12 hour in total)
I like to use around the temperature too! as you said, In winter, That will change around 21℃ or 70F which means the time will change too.
I really appreciate your reply. Thank you so much, Mini!!!
teketeke
So crusty and luscious looking!! I'll have to try your technique.
Thank you for your reply!! I am very looking forward to seeing your baguette picture :)
And, I will tell you that it is very helpful if you practice before scoring.
I got the information from dmsnyder. ( Thank you, David :))
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10121/bread-scoring-tutorial-updated-122009
Good luck, :)
teketeke
I deleted because I already updated it above.
Good Morning Teketeke:
Your baguette looks beautiful and your instruction in English is excellent. I am Thai who has been here for more than 30 years and am afraid that my English is still need work. Sigh! Oh well, can't be good in everything!!!
Anyway, I have not make the baguette yet. I am too afraid, I think. Now with your information, I may attempt to do it.
One question please: I don't have a baguette pan! Does one need to have one inorder to make it your way? I am unclear on one of your instruction: you put the unbake baguette in the baguette pan then into a roasting pan- and put water in the groove of the pan? Cold water in cold pan? You also spray water all over? what to do if one do not have a baguette pan?
Your bread and the crumb looks amazing! You should be very proud.
Mantana
Hello, Mantana:)
I appreciate for your questions. My french bread dough is very wet, and if you want to make a round baguette, you better decrease water up to 70% which is 66g ice cold water for poolish, and 66g cold water for final baking. Otherwise you might end up to have a flattern one. The point is don't mix too much . It is fine that the dough is rough not smooth. It will have more holes and It is easy to handle it.
And now, I have reviewed my recipe changing amount of yeast . I can't answer it right now. I will update when I am satisfied with it. I just keep testing...
If you don't have a baguette pan, I will recommend to use a pizza stone and very hot water to pour to make steam. Here is the link that might help you out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PERdGJCTY1A
In addition to your another question, I will show you this picture below.
I spray cold water from faucet toward the baguettes, pan, and back of the pan for 1-2 minutes. And Yes, you are right about that I place the shaped dough into a pan and let it rise and I put it into a oven after spraying the dough with the pan.
Thank you for your compliment, Mantana :) I keep baking baguettes everyday.:)
In the end, I am glad to see you here. I know a taiwnese who I taught Japanese when I was in Japan. She was extremely nice. :) Here is universal, as some folks said to me. :) we are welcomed :)
Happy baking,
teketeke
I'm new to baking bread and have picked up on the term "crumb" but what does "ear" mean? Sorry if this is a majorly amateurish question.
Don't be sorry, TastyLittleDish. What a cute name!
I didn't know the ear means 1 month ago! Please click this link and you can understand it in a second.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10121/bread-scoring-tutorial-updated-122009#comment-127958
Happy baking,
Akiko
Just want to mention to you, Thaichef, and to Teketeke, and everyone else here whose native language is not English: I am always amazed at the ability of non-native people when they learn English (I've read that it's one of the hardest languages). I think both of you are communicating very well - the day that I can speak (and write! my goodness...) Thai, Chinese, Russian, Spanish - or whatever native language a person from other countries speak, then I can comment on their English.
:O)
Until then - understand you guys are doing SO much more than I can, language-wise, and I am in awe! (your breads are pretty awesome, too!!)
Lynne
I really appreciate your comment. :)
I forget about English now when I forcus on baking, especially "French bread" :P Even though I edit sometimes after I save my comments like now. I do the same thing in Japanese too.
Best wishes,
teketeke
Super results. You English is perfect! AND I love your graphics, very cool and cute too! I have a tough time with French bread, will try this soon. Andrea
I am reviewing my recipe right now. That I can say to you is that you better not to mix the dough too much ( running food processor for 10-15 seconds is enough) When you mix too much, The dough will be really wet and you will have less holes in your baguette.
I will update my recipe when I am satishfied.
Thank you for your compliment :) Tham makes me happy.
Happy baking and good luck,
teketeke
Wonderful looking baguettes, teketeke, I will try your recipe.
I also always use a perforated baguette pan that helps with the shape of my Pains a l'Ancienne. Your way of scoring is interesting - squeezing shortening into the cuts. It seems to keep them from closing again. I only don't like the taste of shortening - would butter work, too?
Karin
Thank you for asking about shortening.
You can use margerine, I saw some Japanese bakers use margerine not butter. Honestly,I don't know why. You also can use any oil. ( olive oil, vegetable oil and so on) Personally, I don't taste anything shortening though. I smell and taste olive oil, vegetable oil, and margeine too. It is very difficult to pour liquid oil into the cuts after you scored in my baking history. :)
Best wishes,
teketeke
I have tried your recipe (your first version without the helpful fold and shape pictures) and I had a lovely baguette. I use my Rofco hearth oven and linnen couches to proof the baguettes. This is my third try with three different recipes and yours is the best of the three. The Hamelman recipe I tried before did not give me the right crumb.I will give it soon another try to perfect the handling and shaping of the 80% hydratation dough. The dough looked like a sloppy disaster at first but after some time and a lot of stretch and folds it came together.
Thanks!
See our blog for more baking tips and recipes; www.weekendbakery.com
"(letter-fold 3times: every 45 minutes). Gently remove the dough from the bowl ( past 45 minutes after 3rd fold) → 2 folds * look at the picture above"
Do you mean to do 1 fold every 45 minutes, or 3 folds every 45 minutes?
00:45 3 folds
01:30 3 folds
02:15 3 folds
03:00 2 folds
or
00:45 1 fold
01:30 1 fold
02:15 1 fold
03:00 2 folds
I did try to make more folds every time, but after 2 hours it is impossible to do more than one fold. So probably I misread your recipe?
Thanks!
Hello, pipo1000!
I am so glad to see your great report!! What a shiny crumb you got!!! Thank you for the nice pictures too!! I am so happy to see my recipe on your website! What a gift!! Thank you so much.
And, I want to tell you about the new fold way that I am trying is very successful. I can have nice open crumb without squeezing shotening into the cuts now. I hope that you can try this way too. You can fold easily too. Please click this link below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyg8K6J8QM&feature=related
* Stretch and fold in a bowl. 4 folds!
00:45 4folds in a bowl.
01:30 4folds in a bowl.
02:15 2 folds or 4 folds in a bowl : you can choose depends on your dough.
03:00 2 folds→
in a bowl →put it in a freezer. ( It is easy to shape for the next 2 steps)
03:20 ( 20 minutes later)Gently take it out onto a work surface.→Shape 1 see the picture below:
03:35 ( 15mintues later)Final shape: see the picture below:
04:00-04:10 Proof ( 30-40minutes)
This is a baguette that I made without squeezing shortening today!
I am still studying the scoring's line yet. I hope that you will have open crumb too!
When you fold it fold method that is a very good chance to have nice open crumb because there a lot of volume inside of the dough!
Good luck!!!
P.S. Don't knead the dough too much. The rough dough is better!!! I am folding (4 folds) the dough after mixing the final dough and the poolish by hand. that is very good. As soon as you mix the poolish and final dough, The dough is ready to strech and fold method already!! ( That is my new thing )
And, Please let me know if you don't understand. I did it in a rush.
Akiko
Thank you very much for all the updates to your recipe. I will give a try this week as I want to perfect my baguette like you. I did not use any shortning or fat in the cuts, I just cut it at a angle and put it in the oven. Perhaps you can post larger photos of the different stages so it easier to see what you are doing?
I will let you how my second batch is doing.
** I am sorry that I made a mistake about the thrid fold-method!! On 3rd time,
You should do 2 folds! otherwise you scoring will be bursted. I corrected the part.
Thank you too, pipo1000! I am glad to hear that you are going to try the new recipe now. I really hope you will have a successful baguette!
I replaced some small photos with larger ones, but I am not finished yet. I am going to put more larger pictures on my recipe soon. Thank you for your advice that is helpful!!
Be free to ask me any questions, please.
Good luck,
Akiko
Ah, I understand now. When you talk about 1 letter fold you mean one simple fold, I thought you meant with 1 letter fold a complete set of folds (left->right, right->left, up->down, down->up). So I did a lot of folds too much at my first try with your baguette and still it worked out ok.
I just started a poolish for 4 baguettes (it is 21:54 evening here) with only 0,4% yeast (=1,5 gram) because it has to stay for 17 hours in the refridgerator during my daytime job until 17:00 tomorrow.
Hi, pipo1000,
I am glad that you understand the fold method. I should have put more pictures in my recipe.
If it is only 17 hours is okay to use 1.6g yeast as my recipe.( I did it before. that was okay. By my french bread diary, it is stronger taste a litle bit and crumb is dark yellowish. ) When you use 1/2 amount of the yeast, You probably have baguettes which have more big holes and thicker crust and heavier than the original recipe. They are good. I had made 2 diffrent baguettes to compare between 0.4% yeast and 0.8% yeast for a week. I love thinner crust and lighter baguettes so that I put more yeast on my dough than others.
Please let me know of your result: I never let the dough autolyzed 17 hours with 0.4% yeast. I am very interested in. Thank you for all your effort.
Thank you for telling me the detail, pipo1000! I hope your are successful.
Akiko
pipo1000,
I put your great photos in my recipe that is Japanese site. Would you mind ?
http://cookpad.com/recipe/1168515
Have a great day,
Akiko
No problem using the photo. I tried to make baguettes yesterday but I made a big error during the process and the dough was not strong enough during shaping. So I will try again tonight!
Pipo1000,
Thank you for your response. I am glad to show your great baguette to everyone in Cookpad! I am sorry for your mistake. but it must improve your baking skill already. I have learned a lot from my mistakes. Thank you for telling me the detail, pipo1000:)
P.S I found that It is good to not to spray water the dough before baking. Spraying water around the pan and back of the pan, the parchment paper except the dough. I think that you have a oven which has steam system though.
Best wishes,
Akiko
I tried again tonight and it worked out ok. My shaping skill is still not very good, especially with the 80% hydratation dough, but it is getting better. The crumb is now very good, is used 0,4% yeast and I did about 2 minutes of slow folding at the first stage. At every further stage I did 4 folds, and I divided my dough after the bench rest.
I am so excited to see your crumb!!! Wonderful!!! and Yes, When you use 0.4% yeast, more likely you will have more open crumb! I just want to have thinner crumb and bite easily because I am a lazy eater :) and also using 0.8% yeast, the baguette is lighter too although it is little difficult to have open crumb.
Your strech and fold skill is very very good like Mr.Nippon's baguette Formulas that is posted by Shiao-ping. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16213/mr-nippon039s-baguette-formulas and I see some ears too.
Congratulation, pipo1000!! You don't use a pan for baguettes, It is very difficult to have a round baguette. It is natural if you don't use the pan.
<I tried again tonight and it worked out ok.
Oh,NO!!! You did a great job!!! Thank you so much.
I will post these pictures on my recipe in Japan too if you don't mind.
By the way, how was the taste? Do you like it?
Thank you again, pipo1000!!
Akiko
Hi pipo1000,
Would you like to know how much light your baguette is after baking?
Have you ever heard that a ratio of how much water the baguette lost ?
A ( The baguette's weight before baking ) - B( The baguette's weight after baking) ÷ A x100 = Ratio of how much water the baguette lost.
The baguette's ratio is supposed to be around 20%-23% by Japanese bakery books.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19274/heavy-baguettes-are-good-too
I just thought you might be interested in this.
Best wishes,
Akiko
Yes, I did measure it;
1380 gram before baking (calculated by adding up the ingreidients)
1100 gram after baking
so it will be a ratio of 20,28%
It sounds great, pipo1000:) It is seemed to me you are very successful. I am very impressed with your strech and fold skill!! It is fantastic. I will fold the dough slowly for 2 mintues at the first stage tomorrow. Thank you for the information!
I am going to bake 2 baguettes that is the same ingredients but I will change the method for testing. It is fun to make different kind of baguettes in the same time, isn't ?
I am going to put your new great photos in my recipe for Japanese. I hope that you don't mind....
Regards,
Akiko
I have filmed the whole baguette making process including my folding. It is for my website and when it is finished I will put it on youtube and my website. On this video you can see how I do my foldings. Hopefully I will finish editting the video this weekend. I will let you know. You can see my hopeless shaping technique too ;-) Tonight I will look at the video shot to see how long exactlty I did my first stretch and fold cycle. I will let you know.
The taste of the baguette is amazing, the best baguette I have ever tasted and I have been on holiday to France alot! Most baguettes from bakers in France are very bad and taste, look and smell like cotton. They use intensive mixing and low hydratation dough and very little preferment. However some bakers are going back to the 'old' traditional recipes and the are better.
Regards,
Edwin
Hello,Edwin :)
It is great! I am looking forward to seeing your folding skill on youtube!!! I can't wait to see the video. Thank you for letting me know about it.:)
And, Your word about the taste made me almost cry. Thank you.. I have never been to France. The information means to me. Did you eat a Gosselin's baguette too ? I am very curious to see the crumb. I can't find the picture of Gosselin's baguette that is cut legthwise. If you can find it, Please let me know :)
Many thanks to you, Edwin! You made my day!
Best wishes,
Akiko
Today, I made 2 baguettes without using a pan. How do you proof the dough after shaping? I did like this: Please see the picture below. ( you can roll up more tightly, I didn't do a good job at the sides.)
I hope that will help you. And my testing was a bed result today. I put them in a freezer for 15 minutes after final proofing normally.And, I scored them then directly put them in a oven. ( like Susan's sourdough bread method) It turned out like a stored baguettes which means No deep taste compare to my original baguette. (I only taste of sweetness ) and they are really light and thin crust like a empty baguettes. I assume that the dough were baked directly from a freezer or refrigerator that you proofed in lost a lot of flavor. (The water from the dough) because they lost lots of water from the dough that is really cold which absorbs lots of heat and looses lots of water.(Cold stuff is needed more Kinetic energy than room temparature stuff in a high heated oven)When you put an ice cube in a preheated oven. Just like that, The same things happen to the dough too. I am not sure about it. If you know about the detail, Please let me know. I am curious.
But I scored them easily. And I found out one thing that we should focus on the straight line when you score. Not draw a line diagonally. Even I knew the thing, I drew a diagonal line unknowingly that cause the soft dough spread sideway and the dough end up to a flatten baguette.
When you can line close to the straight line, The dough will stay still more than the others are drawn diagonally. and Cut's depth 1cm: When I tried to cut's depth 0.6cm, it always came out the depth were 0.3-0.4cm or so because I was so nervous not to cut so deeply. * Have you ever sliced a fish's skin off with a knife? I think that is very similar when I score a baguette.
And these are today's baguettes.
-----------------------------
I made another 2 baguettes( 0.4% yeast and 08 yeast) but I did a wrong thing that I was cooking curry sauce using stove next to the dough was sitting on the shaping process. ( before final shape) That was not good because the dough was softer than ever I had. They are very gooey to make a final shape.
Left: 0.8% yeast ( my original recipe)
Right :0.4% yeast
both of two was sliced 7-8 mintues after I take them out of the oven. It is better to wait for 20 minutes at least.
Especially, 0.4% yeast dough came out a flatten baguette. For making steam, I used a pan and 2 ice cubes and the result was the baguette came out so soft and heavier I mean watery. ( didn't loose much water from the dough because of 2 ice cubes) I think the steam system is good when I put the dough in a freezer before baking.Because the dough may not loose much water. I better try that. To keep the dough in a freezer for 15 minutes before baking, It has some merits that is easy to score and I can keep the shape round. But my question is that the cold dough and ice cubes absorb lots of heat and The dough would end up soft and watery heavy baguettes again...
----Result of using Freezer and refrigerator bafore baking
I baked 2 diffrent kind of baguettes. One is 0.4% yeast and the other one is 0.8% yeast. I put the 0.4%'s in a freezer for 5 minutes after proofing ( 25 minutes) I also used the homemade pan for baguettes.
RESULT: 9/7/2010 I found that I am not big fan of putting the dough in a freezer nor refrigerator before baking . The crumb was stuffed and less shiny . Crust was light yellow that is good but I prefer dark brown. I really like to taste of baguettes are fresh.
Left: Freezer for 5 mintues before baking 0.4%yeast
Right my original recipe 80% hydration 0.8% yeas
I also used a rerigerator for 1 hours after proofing 25 minutes too. The crumb was the same result above.
Happy baking,
Akiko
Hi,
I have tried your great recipe again and I am getting better at it. The shaping went much better this time. Two out of four do now look like a kind of proper baguette and the other two are ok instead of a disaster.
With putting the first two baguettes in the oven I got so excited because they looked so good that I forgot to score the baguettes. I found out when I put the other two into the oven on the second stone. So I decided to score the first two while they where in the oven for 60 seconds and already had some ovenspring. They have never looked better ;-)
I have some problems with my video editing software (it keeps telling me I am out of memory) so the video takes sadly some more time.
We just ate a baguette with some cream cheese and it was lovely. My wife Marieke is also in love with the taste of the baguette. Again Akiko, thank you for your great recipe and your great article!!!
Regards,
Edwin
Edwin,
Wow, I am so happy to see your baguettes are amazing!! As you describe, Your scoring and crumb are very very good. I am very impressed.
I will wait to see your video is done! I will be patient!! I want to try your stretch and fold skill as soon as I see your video! :)
I am so glad that your wife enjoyed it too. That is your effort!!! Congratulation, Edwin!!! My dogs love my beguettes too. LOL That is funny to see when my husband started to eat my baguette at the kitchen, our 2 dogs dash into him as fast as they could and protesting and barking hard to get the french bread. Usually they are very patient and wait until he feeds other soft bread or chicken.
I updated to make homemade pan without buying. I tried it and it works very well. I just came up this morning after I was about throw the cardboad after using foil. I usually use the cardboard to draw lines for scoring.
Thank you for your great great report!! Many thanks to you, Edwin!!
P.S I will post your great photos again in Cookpad!!
Regards,
Akiko
Today I made some baguettes again to practice and it went great. I used 0.8% yeast in my poolish and I used 0.4% yeast in the final dough. I only kept the poolish about 1 hour on room temperature and I stored it for about 8 hours in the fridge. I wanted to see if I got a crumb which was in between 0.4 and 0.8 and if I could shorten the time in the room and in the fridge. I have watched some videos on youtube about shaping baguettes but all of videos use a dough with alot less hydratation and are not usable on your 80% dough but I got some ideas from it. I have made up my own shaping technique and it worked perfectly. All 4 baguettes are looking like baguettes and have a nice shape. One of baguettes hit the back of the oven and has a little bent but that is easy to do better next time. I also tried to score as good as I could and you almost have to score in a straight line, very funny. These are the nicest looking baguettes I have ever baked but..... I forgot to put in the salt...
0.8% yeast in poolish and 0.4% yeast in final dough;
Did you hear of these baguette's really loud cracking sounds? I did. and I saw a huge crack on these baguettes too.
Your crumb look so much better. I should learn your fold skill from you.:) When my son ate one of those, he said" What? I don't taste anything! " That was really right :0 I realized that as soon as I held these baguettes. They were extremely light. Since then I mix flour and salt in the other bowl before putting it into the poolish and final dough mixture.
And, I have put 0.2% yeast in a poolish and 0.6% yeast in a final dough before.They were good too. but they were still thicker crust for me athough they were tasty . I didn't get as much as you get such a open crumb though..
What you tested today was a really good one. Do you have Hamelman's book? I have just gotten some information about the yeast percentage for baguettes by one of TFLers. Thank you !
-----------------------
LENGTH OF RIPENING % YEAST
Up to 8 hours .7 to 1%Up to 12 hours .3 to .6%
Up to 16 hours .1 to .25%
----------------------------------------
I better test more about the yeast percentage from now on. Thank you for telling me, Edwin! Your scoring is great, Edwin!! It is really funny, isn't"?
Best wishes,
Akiko
The baguettes without did indeed crackle alot. They did not feel very light, they felt like normal baguettes. The baking ratio was 21.2%. I have the Hamelman book, as I have alot of bread books including the Calvel book. By the way the percentages and times for poolish by Hamelman are for room temperature and for fresh yeast instead of active dry yeast (21 degrees celcius). So you have to divide the percentages by 3!
Here is a link to a PDF of one chapter of the Hamelman book, it is located on the website of the publisher; it is the chapter about poolish dough;
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/72/04711685/0471168572.pdf
Edwin,
You have everything that you need to learn about bread! Thank you for linking the chapter of the Hamelman book. I got the same one from one of TFLers too.After I left it the message, I noticed that the TFLer had already mentioned the same thing although I knew that the percentage and time for poolish by Hamelman are for room temparature.
I think that I don't know about bread anything. I tried some bread books but they were not my taste. so I found lots of good bread recipes and information in Cookpad ( Japanese ) and now I am here (TFL) that are tons of information about bread and good recipes too because they are making bread in real and that are very accurate.
When I checked through my french bread diary ( I have baked 2 different baguettes almost everyday for 5 month.( I missed 4 times), I realized that sometimes 0.4% yeast baguettes are too wet crumb and little heavy. I didn't leave the right temparature and humidity. 0.8% baguettes are easy to take care of. All of your bagettes are looking good and seemed to me they are light too. What degree do you let the 0.4 % baguettes rise for proof before baking ?
Best wishes,
Akiko
Akiko,
Did you ever try reducing the water in the dough? You now use 80%, however when you lower it to about 70-74% the dough will be much easier to handle. I am wondering what the effect on the crumb will be. I will try to bake again tomorrow and now with salt!
As you know we have a website http://www.weekendbakery.com about bread baking and I am asking you if I may use your wonderful recipe to publish an article about this amazing baguette?
Thanks,
Edwin
Edwin,
Absolutely you can use my recipe and you can show your professional fold-skill to everybody who wants to make a baguette that has nice open crumb like yours! I am glad to hear that from you!
I tried 70%-78 hydration baguettes many times but they were thick crust and I didn't get the one has open crumb. I really like high hydration baguettes. I better I stick with 0.8% yeast baguettes for a while because I can't use preheat 500F or 250℃.
I baked 2 kinds of baguettes today. One was 0.8% yeast that was proofed as my original recipe; the other one was 0.4% yeast that was left in a freezer for 5 minutes after proofing at 33-34℃. Now I know that I shouldn't put the dough in a freezer or refrigerator before baking because their crumb were less shiny and stuffed and the baking ratio was 19% the 0.8% one's baking ratio was 22% and they had nice open crumb not as much as yours though.
I am enjoying seeing your baguettes pictures!!
Happy baking,
Akiko
Thanks alot!
I have got my video editing program back to work and I am editing the video at this moment. It had something to do with a new Apple Quicktime and my Sony Vegas video editing program. When I installed an older Quicktime 7.5.5 instead of 7.6.7 it start working again, however now iTunes for my iPad does not work anymore.... *computers* *sigh*
Thanks for the info about the 70-78% hydration, I will take your word for it and keep going with the 80% version. When the article and video is finished I will tell you. I have to re-shoot the shaping part of the video to my new way of shaping. Hopefully it will work when I have the camera rolling.
Kind regards,
Edwin
Edwin,
I was told by one of TFLERS that I better try to make 70%-78% hydration baguettes with a new method I changed recently. That was right. I didn't test that using a new version one.
I think I am going to try to make 78% hydration (0.4% yeast)one and 80% hydration(0.8% yeast) tomorrow. I changed my mind to give up to try 0.4% yeast one. :) I want to make one like yours that are light all the time. I will post the result tomorrow.
P.S I am sorry for your computer trouble. That is very annoying isn't? I hope that you are successful soon! I want to watch your video!! :) I am delighted to see your skill!!
------Next day------
I made 78% hydration dough with 0.4% yeast and 80% hydration dough with 0.8% yeast using a homemake baguette pan. I realized that 0.4% dough need more time to rise ( proof) before baking than 0.8% yeast dough.
Today's result : I proofed them at 30℃-32℃ or 86F-89.6F for 25 minutes. 0.4% yeast dough needed 10 more minutes to rise. That is why the dough was heavy little bit.
0.4% yeast, 78% hydration dough. I don't think between 80% and 78% hydration have any differences. It was the same dough texture with 80% hydration with 0.4% yeast.
0.8% yeast , 80% dydration dough. That was very tasty and I am very happy with this baguette.
Tomorrow, I am going to make 75% hydration and 70% hydration with 0.4% yeast dough using a homemade baguette pan.
To be continued....
Akiko
Baked again, 0.8% yeast for 1 hour on room temperature and from 21:00 until 16:30 in the fridge. I did uses 0.4% yeast in the final dough. My new shaping technique is working perfectly and I have filmed everything. I also have a special video treat if if worked out.
The baguettes are superb! The best I have ever had. Cripsy, light (22% baking ratio) and full of flavour. This way they have the perfect balance between crumb and holes.
Also my scoring is getting more even and more aligned, so I am very very happy with the ears on my baguettes! I have practiced with a pen on a piece of paper. I drew a vertical line on the paper and then tried to 'score' the line. I practiced this about 20 to 30 times. I am using 'bread pan oil spray' to spray on my homemade lame. It is a dual-edge razor blade mounted on a wooden stick. With the oil and a swift stroke the scoring is ok. You only have to break the 'skin' on the baguette, not really cutting very deeply. My cuts were only about 2-3mm deep. The ovenspring made the scorings break open.
Wow, Edwin,
You mastered this recipe more than me!! I did try before 0.8% yeast for poolish and 0.4% yeast for final dough before too. But I didn't get the great result as much as you got. Oh boy!!
Hmmmm... Now I want to make baguettes like yours! :) Scoring is very vary depends on your oven and steam system, I wonder. I never got the ears and blooms when I cut only 0.2 or 0.3 mm. Your oven is very nice! What kind of oven do you have?
And, Do you have a sourdough bread recipe on your site? I couldn't find it.
That is so funny now because I know a Japanse woman who has baked french bread using her recipe for a long time ( more than me :) ) in Cookpad ( Japanese) and now I see you who often bake baguettes like us that makes me feel so great. I am very enjoying to see your GREAT baguette pictures. Thank you so much, Edwin!!!
P.S I used to practice to score using papers, but now I am using cardboards that I save after using saran wraps or foil and so on. That is an interesting to hear what you made your own lame.
GREAT BAGUETTES!! and TOAST FOR YOUR GREAT EFFORT!!!! I am so happy!!
Baking is fun!
Akiko
I have to thank you for your great recipe and all of your research work.
What kind of flour are you using? I am using organic flour milled by a very old historical windmill about 15 kilometers away. I have great success with this flour with all kind of breads. I have tried different flours from different sources on my regular breads (even french T55) but this is the best. All the flours gave a different result; taste, structure, crumb, crust and color. So perhaps you could try another kind of flour?
The oven is a Rofco B20, a Belgium made stone flour oven for the homebaker or for small shops; http://www.rofco.be/ovens.html#B20
Regards,
Edwin
P.S. I score about 2-3mm not 0.2-0.3mm
Hi, Edwin:)
I have to thank you too!! I am learning a lot from you too and I am enjoying it.
Oops, That was a mistake, yep I meant to write "2-3mm"
----- I think that I did something wrong with yesterday's baguette! ---
I did the same test today. I have to admit that leave the poolish for 1 hours is better!!! and really taste fresh and full of flavor!! Thank you, Edwin! I will change the recipe.
Thank you for all your information that you gave me. I am looking for fresh flour now.:)
-----About your sourdough recipe----
I found your sourdough bread recipe that looks scrumptious! I will give a try next time ! Thank you, Edwin.
http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/our-version-of-a-pain-rustique/
Best wishes,
Akiko
Here is a quick picture of my oven with the big stones. The oven has three of these floors;
Akiko - I love this thread. Tried your recipe this weekend and I had mixed results. The crumb and crust were very good but I had trouble slashing the wet dough.
I do have a Silform Baquette mold which works really great for this recipe. I recommend one of these to anyone who plans to bake baquettes or baquette rolls frequently
http://www.jbprince.com/cake-and-bread-molds/silform-baguette-form.asp
davesmall,
Thank you for trying such a high hydration dough that is difficult to score as you said, and I am so glad to hear from you loved the crumb and crust. Thank you for telling me the result.
Did you put some oil in your lame and sprinkle some flour on the dough before scoring? I score my baguette with a lame by bare hand because I can aim at the right angle I want to. It is little dangerous but it works for me.
I checked the site you linked that is interesting. Thank you for the information that will help somebody want to know about this pan.
Thank you again, davesmall:)
Akiko
Holy smokes! Not only is your bread fantastic and your post absolutely amazing... but our English is pretty great too!
Thanks for sharing! I love it.
BellesAZ,
Thank you for the compliment that made me run as fas as I could to tell my husband. :) LOL... My family makes fun of me for my English all the time. But they are correcting me for a good reason and I appreciate it.
Thank you, BellesAZ
Best wishes,
Akiko
I have baked the baguettes again yesterday and they came out yummie as well. The only thing was I did not divide the dough evenly so two were bigger and less nicely shaped than the other two. But the crumb, taste and holes were the same as my other pictures.
The fun thing of this acident was that the smaller two of the baguettes had a nicer oven spring with nicer opening of the cuts. I think they weigh about 310-325 gram instead of the 350 grams. Normally a baguette in France needs to be 60cm instead of the 40cm I can make. I think they call the smaller slightly thicker bread 'a pain'.
Hi,
I have posted a baguette diary based on my postings and Akiko's recipe within this thread on my website with more photo's of baguettes;
http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/baguettes-my-home-bakers-log/
Kind regards,
Edwin
Oh my goodness!! Edwin,
All our family read your french bread blog and we are so delighted!! My husband was laughing with a joy, my son and daughter were patting my back with good cheer.
I can clearly said that you definitely created your own recipe by your lots of efforts, Edwin!! You should post your recipe here!!! I am very very happy with your baguettes!!!!
I appreciete all your generous words that you wrote to me. Many thanks to you, Edwin!
About the amount of Baguette's dough: That is an interesting invention. I should check it out. Thank you for telling me, Edwin.
My today's baguttes, I had to leave the dough at 3rd fermentation ( After I finished to stretch and fold) for 1.5 hours.( Total fermentation time was almost 4 hours) These baguettes were like a dead crumb. I didn't like them at all. I remember that one Japanese home baker let her baguettes dough rise for 6 hours ( cold fermentation at the refrigerator) using a recipe was fermented at the refrigerator from 3 hours to 6 hours, She didn't like the 6 hours one at all. She liked 3 hours one instead. Over proof and over fermented dough ruin everything in my opinion.
I like to read your blog !!!!
Thank you again, Edwin!
Akiko
Akiko and Edwin - This is an amazing thread. I've really enjoyed following it. Edwin, your diary page is great.
One of the reasons I decided to try Akiko's recipe would be my fondness for Vietnamese pork baquette sandwiches: Banh Mi
I live in Houston which was a major immigration center during the Vietnam war. We now enjoy many wonderful Vietnamese restaurants. There was a Vietnamese sandwich shop not far from our house. I loved their sandwiches. Unfortunately, they shut down earlier this year so those sandwiches were no longer available. I felt the need to make them at home.
This is the famous Banh Mi sandwich. It is the result of the French occupation of Vietnam some years ago. Innovative Vietnam chef's adopted the French Baquette and turned it into a wonderful sandwich.
Any great sandwich should start with wonderful bread. Akido's baquettes are perfect. For individual sandwiches I made shorter baquettes about 7 or 8 inches long but the same diameter as regular baquettes.
These sandwiches are a wonderful combination of crusty bread, crunchy and flavorful ingredients.
Here is a link to the recipe we used. We were fortunate to have some left over pork roast which worked perfectly. I'm sure you could also use thin sliced pork loin or tenderloin browned in a skillet.
http://www.foodchannel.com/recipes/678-vietnamese-style-pork-sandwich
If you are baking these baquettes, I would strongly encourage you to try these.
Hello! davesmall
Thank you for the compliment and the recipe you linked. I am so glad that my recipe has worked out for you, and Edwin's baguettes are phenomenal as you know. Oh yes, I am always looking for recipes using baguettes!!:) I didn't buy a block of pork today sunday that is our grocery shopping once a week. I will try it next week! It looks yummy! Thank you, davesmall!
I used to go to a Vietanamese restaurant in Hawaii where I had lived for a few years in total. I love Vietanamese food. My most favorite's was Phở I still love it but I can't find any good one here.
When you have some another recipes that you like , Please let me know :)
P.S How is your scoring? Did you get "ears" and " blooms"? You mentioned that you couldn't slash such a wet dough.
Thank you again,
Akiko
Akiko - Please let me know how your family likes the Vietnamese sandwiches. I think they're very good.
I still wasn't able to get a clean slash with ears. My next idea is to put the loaves into the oven without slashing. Then wait until the dough starts to expand and dries on the surface. That's probably going to be five to seven minutes after putting into the oven. I'm curious as to whether any other readers have tried 'hot slashing' like this. I don't remember seeing it reported anywhere but seems like it should work. I'll give it a try.
Hello, davesmall,
I will tell you when we eat the sandwiches!
Wow, What a great idea! Edwin scored the dough after putting them in a oven by an accident before. That worked out perfectly, I wonder. I am looking forward to hearing your result :)
P.S I will update fold and shaping method today or tomorrow. I think that will have more open crumb because the dough has a lot of volume inside.
Happy baking!
Akiko
Hi, davesmall
I tried a hair dryer to dry the dough's surface with cold air before scoring for 3 mintues or so. I can't say it works but I was successful. I still continue to test about it. I use the homemade pan though. Today's result:
I know you have the special pan though. When you score using the pan, you better score more diagnoally because the pan support the dough not spread widely.
See the score line's picture below: This scoring must be for using a stored pan.
And This is for sliding the dough onto the pizza stone: see this picture below
I am still studying but These are from my experiences. I hope that will help you.
Best wishes,
Akiko
Hello, davesmall
I just want to tell you about the sandwich you recommended to me was so delicious!!!
Unfortunately, I couldn't find fish sauce around here ( I didn't have a chance to go asian market) So, I used my favorite vinegar sauce.
http://cookpad.com/recipe/266957 ( Japanese) It is very easy.
You just put all ingredients in a container and shake it and it will be ready to use next day. When you used all the liquid, add more vinegar. you can use it for several months without making it from begining. It matches grilled fish or noodles or so.
And this is the sandwich you told me! After I took this picture, I wrapped them with saran wrap to bite it easily.:)
Thank you, davesmall!!
By the way, I tried a hot slash on my sourdough other day. and I noticed the straight line in the center of the bloom. I saw the lines in yours too. It also happens when you slash many times. If you like it , It is okay, but I am not fond of the lines.
Take a look this video from the time 4:17.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nntp9FfqIZ8
I saw the same lines that in the center of the blooms too.
Thank you again for the recipe! davesmall,
Akiko
I tried a dough with 76% hydration today. The plus side it is a lot less sticky, the minus side the holes in the crumb are a little less uniform. I also tried the dragon tail cut, very very nice and it also gives the baguettes a lot of room to expand and because of this the crumb had a nice uniform hole structure;
Edwin,
I must try your recipe!!! I love the dragon trail pattern!! WOW, Is it really 76% hydration??? That is reallly beautiful crumb !!!! I want to put these beautiful baguette's pictures on my recipe of Japanese version to show everyone in Japan! What a great idea, Edwin!!! I bet that a lot of skilled Japanese home bakers want to try this pattern.
I am so impressed!!!!
Akiko
For the record; The dragon tail is not my idea, we just found this pattern on the internet!
Edwin,
I know that! I saw "Dragon tail pattern" on David's blog. I think that Miyuki who was teacher? showed them on her class or so. I was simply impressed with your skill!!
Akiko
FYI, SusanFNP just posted a video of dragon tail shaping. It's really nice and clear. Here's a link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WhWQldwrjU
David
Akiko - I baked some rolls today using 80% hydration wet dough. Since I've found it very difficult to slash such wet dough I experimented with hot slashing.
I put the unslashed rolls in a 450 degree oven and waited about 6 minutes until I could see that they had begun to expand and the surface of the dough was dry.
Here is a photo of the best one. Like anything else, I think it will take a bit of practice but it does look like a viable solution to the wet dough slashing problem.
Dave Small
Hello, davesmall
That is an interesting report, Thank you for letting me know !! davesmall! Is this baguette burst? I have to tell you about one thing: Summer is over now and the temperature has changed. The room tempareture in my kitchen was around 76F around in summer. but now, It has been cold and the temperature is around 68F around now . You should use cold water instead of ice cold water if you live in a country has a season. and You don't have to put the dough in a freezer before shaping either because it is easy to handle the dough if it is cool.
Why do you use 450F? Do you have a steam system? To have ears and blooms, It is better to use highest heat and a good steam system. That is very important to lead you to a successful scoring. And I think that you better to slash just a little bit at 30 degree angle in a oven. I never done this before. pipo1000 Edwin did it once though..
======
-----Yesterday------
I used extra light virgin olive oil for scoring yesterday. That didn't work. picuture below:
I always cheer you up!
Akiko
Akiko, I really admire your being so dedicated to achieve the better baguette - you are as good as the guys at America's test kitchen ("Cooks Illustrated") coming up with unorthodox methods - and we all can benefit from it!
Karin
Hello, Karin
Thank you for your lovey comment that made me happy!
What a great website! I checked out "Science" and read about " Kneading and autolysis" and " Flour type" after I signed in. I checked the all links off and chose the botton " No, thanks!" so I couldn't read as much as I wanted to read because that has a limitted number of topics. But it was very interesting. Thank you, Karin!! I am learing from you !!
By the way, I don't squeeze some shortening into the cuts anymore. After you mentioned about shortening, I agree with you about the flavor when I squeezed it in, I could taste it after baking. It was very helpful, Karin. Thank you.
Best wishes,
Akiko
Akiko - In answer to your question, there was no bursting with the hot slashing method I used. Agree with you about the 30 degree angle.
Dave Small
Hi, davesmall,
I am glad that the baguette you made were not burst! I have been annoyed with my baguettes that are burst a lot since I changed the poolish's time at the room temperature and there is another reasons were that the room temperature has changed because of the weather. I have missed very important thing at the point. That was what you have to let the dough sit until the dough rises 1.5 volume!!
I think 30 degree angle is working to me too. I lower my body to get the angle for the dough and slash with my rhythm. I try to not to stop one at time that will have unbalanced scoring lines.
Happy baking,
Akiko
* You can see why you should let the poolish at the room temperature until the dough rises 1.5 times.
Result : Ice cold water/ 1 hour at the room temperature
This dough is 3 hours later. The dough was harder.
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Cold water /poolish 2 hours at the roomtempareture.
3 hours later: It was really really plump and I had been puffy from beginning.
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Very cold water/ Poolish for 2 hours at the roomtempareture 1.5 volume.
I didn't take the picture of the stage that is after 3 hours, but you can see the dough is plump and the dough is soft.
I did not need 2 hours at time moment, the room temperature is about 23 degrees and my baking room (where the oven in) is about 22 degrees. But I will keep an eye on the poolish. When I take it out of the fridge it has about double to tripled in size so it seem active.
Your shaping technique is very nice, the baguette is nicely even with good round ends, like they look like at the french bakers. Mine look a little bit more rustique...
Hi, Edwin
<But I will keep an eye on the poolish. When I take it out of the fridge it has about double to tripled in size so it seem active
It will active even if it is in a refrigerator, when the dough rises 1.5 times volume. Tonight, I set up 2 baguettes for tomorrow. My kitchen room temperature was 74F or between 23℃-24℃
1. Ice cold water - It took 2 hours until the dough rose 1.5 times volume.
2. Cold water- It took 1 hour until the dough rose 1.5 times volume. ( you are right!)
I want to know how different these baguettes taste between using ice cold water and cold water for poolish.
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Thank you for your compliment :) I just love to have a lot of crumb inside a baguette. I also want to get " ears" and " blooms" like Gosselin baguettes! That is funny because I never tasted them, but I love their looking. I admire your baguettes that are absolutely beautiful .Your shaping is very good, Edwin.
Look at this!! Your shaping skill is perfect!
Back to 80% hydration, although 76% also works very well, but 80% is a bit more fun to work with, more of a challenge. I have changed a few little things; first of all after mixing the poolish with the ingredients I now have used a little 'autolyse' of 15 minutes to hydrate the newly added flour. After 15 minutes the 2 minutes of stretch and folds were easier because of the autolyse.
I also did not do the last stretch and fold at 03:00 just before the bench rest, I went directly into dividing and preshaping. While preshaping I was a bit more 'aggresive' on getting the rectangle right to aim for a more evenly shaped baguette. I used the same technique on the preshape as on the shape, a little bit of flour, press the dough down and out with your palms and tuck and roll into a cylinder. This way I got a nicer baguette shape and the shaping was more predictable and I needed less rolling to get to the right length. Actually it was a bit to easy, because all my baguettes were a bit to long. It did not seem to have a negative effect on the crumb and hole structure.
I almost forgot, I made 6 baguettes at once this time instead of 4 so I did load 3 baguettes on one go instead of 2. A bit more fun stress! I made 3 of them in the dragon tail pattern.
<Back to 80% hydration, although 76% also works very well, but 80% is a bit more fun to work with, more of a challenge.
How were the 76% hydration baguettes's crust? Is that as same as 80% hydration baguettes?
<I now have used a little 'autolyse' of 15 minutes to hydrate the newly added flour. After 15 minutes the 2 minutes of stretch and folds were easier because of the autolyse.
I used the method from BBA before. I was kneading a lot at the time.. I think that sounds very good!
<I also did not do the last stretch and fold at 03:00 just before the bench rest..
That is another better ideas.. It might be not necessary..
<I almost forgot, I made 6 baguettes at once this time instead of 4 so I did load 3 baguettes on one go instead of 2. A bit more fun stress! I made 3 of them in the dragon tail pattern.
Wow, How was the baking ratio? It went down a little bit? You are so brave!!! I was about to try the dragon tail but I couldn't... hmmm... I was coward...
I did not think there was a big difference in the crust, but I did not taste them next to each other. I think I sort of like the 80% better...
I forgot to measure the baking ratio and I did not have time of make a photo of the baguettes. Sorry, next time!
I think we may need the last stretch and fold at 03:00, because the baguette did flat out a little bit after scoring. I will try it again and let you know.
About Flour:
If your flour is organic and does not contain malted barley flour, you should add 0.7% of diastatic barley malt powder to the flour blend. This malt powder will accelerate enzyme activity in the dough, resulting in a more colorful crust. ( That is noted by The Bread Baker's Apprentice.)
I forgot about this important note!! Other day, I made 2 baguettes for 2 days in a raw using Arrowhead Mills all purpose flour. The crust was very crunchy but I tasted almost nothing. You can see the effect of malted barley flour when you see the Arrowhead Mills AP is really light yellow compare to the Gold medal.
This is very important! You will be disappointed when you taste it. I really enjoyed the crunchy crust but the crumb had no flavor.
Strange... I use organic flour from a windmill and I get a nice golden brown color. Hmm, I will ask the miller next time if he adds any malted barley flour to the organic flour.
Nice evenly shaped baguettes with good oven spring!
Hello, Edwin
I got some information from one of my friends who is Japanese started to make baguettes. She checked her organic flour content, and it has malted barley flour. I think that is depends on brands.
It is seemed to me that your flour contains malted barley flour because your crust are always nicely browned.
Thanks, Edwin.... I have trouble with the temperature now... I shut off the central climate control and my husband decreased the temperature of the refrigerator yesterday from 5 to 4 and then today's baguettes came out disaster. Overproof again.
hmm...... Temperature is very important to make baguettes....I am annoyed...
Thank you for your compliment that made me feel better from the problem.
Akiko
Hi,
With the baguette dough I have tried to make normal loafs of bread. I took 8 times the amount of this recipe and I baked 4 loafs. I only used 75% hydration instead of 80% so I could shape a nice loaf. I baked the loaf for 46 minutes at 235 celcius. I lowered the oven to 210 after 12 minutes. The crumb is moist, lovely and sweet;
Wow, Edwin you really did a fantastic job. I can see how moist the crumb are! Of course, Great blooms and ears!!!
I have had trouble with the tempareture for my baguette and the timing when it is ready to bake for levain bread and sourdough for a while, and Vogel who is one of TFLERS helped me a lot.
I think that you may like the blog or someone who have troubles with the same thing like I had will be interested in too.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19742/next-level
Best wishes,
Akiko