May 27, 2009 - 7:13pm
Conversion to rolls
Is there a standard formula for converting a recipe into rolls?
I'd like to make the Hamelman cheese bread again, but because it is such a strongly flavored bread, I think rolls may be a good application. Easier to share with more people.
Is there a standard weight for rolls? If the bake time for two 1.5# loaves is 45 minutes at 460F, how do you calculate the bake time for X number of rolls of X weight?
Through Hamelman and DiMuzio, I know that the bake time is shorter and the oven temp higher, but that's pretty vague.
Obviously, I've not baked rolls before and am in need of enlightenment!
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I think it's usually 2 oz. for rolls, and I'd bake them at maybe 400F. for about 20 minutes before testing them.
I use 2 oz. ball too and also bake at 400º for about 20 minutes.
--Pamela
I recently made 18 pounds of PR's Italian with biga as rolls. My sister was having a graduation party and asked that they not be "Hard Rolls" as they were expecting small children who probably would prefer softer buns for the Italian beef being served.
I scaled 4 Oz oval shapes that made a mini Hoagie. The milk and oil in the mix helped to make a soft crumb and I was careful not to brown them as much as I would of normally done. The bake time for my oven was 18 minutes at 400F.
I have found that the recommended baking time is the least accurate item in every recipe I have tried. I went out of my way to make sure my oven temperature was on or that I know how much to adjust it so the temp is where I need it and still, the times are frequently way off. LindyD, your reference of 460F for 45 minutes is a good example. I use 450-460 at 25-30 minutes for most lean doughs. I think baking rack placement has a lot to do with the end results.
Eric
LOL, I figured I might be on a slippery slope using "vague" in relation to your tome, Dan. Let's just say I was referring to one tiny section. ;-)
Maybe I'll experiment with a different recipe first, since the Parmigiano-Reggiano is about $20 a pound and I'd hate to wind up with overbaked, dry rolls. Or maybe a cheaper cheese would be a good idea.
Eric, turning out 18 pounds of rolls is really impressive. How do you manage to avoid overproofing while a batch is baking? That's presuming you don't have a deck oven in your kitchen. What about internal temperature? The same as a loaf of bread?LindyD,
One of the things I had to do when I bought a DLX mixer that holds 9 Lbs of dough, is figure out how to schedule proofing so I didn't end up with more dough proofed than I can bake. As Dan says in his reply I keep things in the cooler until they are ready to enter the warm up and proof pipeline. When it is just two sessions, I delay the second batch by 30 minutes. I don't think it is as critical with retarded dough since the activity is slowed way down. When I plan to mix and bake two sessions one right after the other, I chill the second batch after shaping for 30-40 minutes. I think a little cooling for 30 minutes slows down the second batch just enough to not over proof it. After all, I would far rather wait a few minutes for the dough than curse myself after it deflated.
Also as Dan mentioned, I pay careful attention to the first batch and make note of the time. I don't bother to measure the internal temp on rolls since they are small enough to easily bake through to the 200-205F degree.
One other thing I do when I am in production mode is I never bake on a stone. The truth about heat loss from the stone is that you loose so much heat from having cold dough on it that it takes 20+ minutes to come back to temperature in my oven. I remove the stone and bake on 1/2 sheet pans with parchment. You couldn't tell the difference. I can unload and load a sheet pan quickly without any fooling around trying to pretend I have a hearth oven. (was that sarcastic?)
Eric
I was just messing around a while back and made these rolls out of my baguette recipe. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11220/baguettesrolls-photo.
They were turned out very good..I didn't measure their weight just judged the dough ball into about a 3oz or close.
And If you check it out you will get to see dmsnyder...David's cute little Grandaughter's!
Sylvia
David's granddaughters - but the rolls look pretty good too!
Thanks, Sylvia, for the link.
It's pretty clear that you gave a lot of thought and planning to the technicalities of production baking in your home kitchen, Eric. Lots of mental mise in place.
I think it's one thing to bake two, three, or four loaves and get pretty good results. It's a different ballgame when the production rate increases substantially and I really appreciate the education you and Dan have given. Good info like this doesn't seem to get included in the literature - at least it's not in the books I have.
It makes pefect sense to move out the baking stone. I think you'd lose lots less oven heat since the unloading/loading can be done faster than fooling around with a peel.
Such details are invaluable and I've printed out these great comments because I know they'll come in handy. The only thing I've added is a note to turn on the answering machine.
Thanks very much, Dan and Eric.
P.S. to Dan - use ICE on those burns!
Lindy
is to stick rimmed trays upside-down in the oven for smoother "hearth" action.
Mini