stand mixer vs stretch and fold ( open crumb and development of structure )

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restless baker on 10 Apr 2018 at 10:05

hey everyone, thanks for replying to my previous questions, I have a lot more questions now LOL 

when you mix with stand mixer whats the approach for open crumb bread? (I have seen some just incorporate the ingredients and give it like 6 min of total mixing and then just bring the dough out and give it stretch and folds, IAM NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS TYPE OF MIXING APPROACH ) i want to know if there is a way that we use stand mixer and just stand mixer and get open crumb and developed structure or not . it seems like stand mixer mix to the point of full gluten development but the dough doesn't have structure and after a while, it just falls down on itself if not giving it stretches and folds I am not sure if I make sense ) 

I ask this because even when I used to stretch and fold all the way to the end 70% hydration bread, everything was good had some more folds and stretch at the beginning and less stretch and fold at the end of 4 hours bulk proof, I handled the dough carefully and the end result was pleasant with good amount of open crumb ( not so many big holes ) 

 

How to build good dough structure and a good method of pouring that goes well with them? 

 

why is it easier to get the more open crumb with active dry yeast in comparison to sourdough starter? could it be that the starter is not strong ( wild ) enough 

I had more questions but for some reason, I don't remember LOL, I will ask more if I remembered them, thanks 

I make sourdough bread with a relatively open crumb all the time (I am a professional). I mix in a mixer on low for 5-10 minutes and then let it rest, covered and undisturbed, until it has finished proofing. In my experience, stretch and folds or subsequent mixing made no difference in the final loaf. I make 80% hydration bread. My experience, for what it’s worth.

Responding specifically to the comment made by MichaelLily.  However, absolutely anyone with a strong opinion based on his or her own success would go far.  I've heard that it can take a hundred loaves until one feels in the drivers seat for crafting great sourdough.  I've passed that mark many times over, and have had mostly successes.  However, only recently have I gotten onto the stand mixer train.  But more than that...my rationale has been to create a strong enough dough, that I can go straight to bulk fermenting without stretch/folds and when done, shape the boule, put it into my banneton, and into the fridge until baking the next day.  Tomorrow my Ooni Halo Pro spiral mixer arrives, and I am non stop thinking on my new journey.  Of course would love some comment based on experience, but I'll be stumbling/fumbling my way until I get there :).  Thanks for reading this.