UIs anyone willing to try this USDA recipe?
I made it once using the straight dough method and it had sourness to spare on that one attempt, a bit more sour than old-school Larraburu.
Subsequent attempts using the exact same formula have resulted in failure, lacking any discernable sourness. It is possible that I used different brands of all-purpose flour (King Arthur Organic and Gold Medal). Otherwise I can't explain the failure of subsequent attempts.
I obtained the whey by draining plain yogurt into a vessel.
If you try it, please report your results here.
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/cd/3b/0d/f2eb7c00201294/US3826850.pdf
Did you make the yogurt yourself?
That's very interesting. The only thing remotely like it I have tried is to add 1 TBsp of liquid drained from (commercial, live-bacteria) yogurt along with a pinch of dried yeast, about 1/4 tsp. That made for a slow-fermenting dough and the baked loaf while not sour tasted halfway between a straight yeasted bread and a naturally-fermented one.
I have speculated about using both whey and vinegar but I was under the impression that the vinegar would inhibit the yeast and possibly damage gluten. Of course, you would need to make sure the pH started out high enough.
TomP
There have been a number of threads on TFL over the years about similar processes. Here's one:
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/49375/san-franciscostyle-sour-bread?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Everyone seems to have had trouble with erratic results.
If a starter is used - it's too young. Enjoy!
I tried this method before using sweet whey on another iteration of this method (link). I didn't have much luck reproducing the flavor of SFSD. One problem with the patent method is that they used concentrated acid whey; it's ≈5× more concentrated than the initial drained whey from yogurt. They do mention that the dilute acid whey can be used, but do not give an example.
Have you tried the patent method using the drained acid whey as the only liquid in the recipe? That would still be less total solids and total acidity than their examples but better than using only as part of the liquid.
Welcome to the thread, alcophile.
I made it exactly as specified in the patent, using both whey and clear vinegar as the liquids.
It worked the first time I made it but did not work when made by others or in subsequent attempts by me and this drives me crazy.
Maybe there is something wrong with using drained yogurt. I figure vinegar is vinegar.
The patent uses some water for both the straight dough and the sponge-and-dough methods. Did you substitute yogurt acid whey for all the water in the recipes?
I made it exactly as in the recipe, including the water. No substitutions.
As I wrote earlier, it seems that many folks have had erratic results with this or similar methods. You have now joined them. Also, many TFLers who tried it wrote that they thought the flavor of the bread was not like real SF bread, being flat or too simple. That's what I notice trying sourdoughs from many commercial bakeries. They taste like sour cardboard or sour fluff to me.
Part of the problem trying to replicate SFSD flavor is that there are a lot of other minor acids and other organic compounds formed in the bread. Chocolate is the same way. There might be a few main components of the flavor, but then there are a slew of others in trace amounts that give chocolate its complex flavor.
I don't know what those people at the USDA were thinking, but this recipe is just too unreliable and doesn't give dependable results. I think it's time to give up on this experiment.