Hi everyone, Katie here with another newbie question.
I’m after a crusty Italian loaf with an airy crumb. From what I see, online bakers use a strong bread flour at 70-75% hydration. Unfortunately, all purpose flour is all I have to work with in my corner of the Third World. I read that you can add wheat gluten... yeah, if I ask for that, people will look at me like I’ve sprouted a second nose.
So I was in the store today and saw, for the first time, Quaker Oat Flour. Anyone know about this? Will combining it with all purpose be of any help to me? I think I need to raise my protein level from 12 up to 15 percent. Any other suggestions or additives?
As always... thanks everyone...
Katie
Adjust for the flour and you'll be fine. That would be less water and maybe minus a rise. Enjoy!
It's oat so it's not going to increase your gluten. It will probably add a nice flavor but will work against the texture you want.
TomP
@kay-dee what do you expect from the added wheat gluten?
Protein content und hydration are only numbers. They alone don't make an airy crumb. Only fermentation and (dough) structure make an airy crumb. Adapt the hydration and the process to your flour. Start with 60% hydration and your AP flour at room temperature (if not above 27ºC). Nothing else. Except yeast or sourdough and salt ;)
Here is imo a very good example with low protein content (from mwilson's blog, something between 10-11% protein):
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/74888/wildfarmed-rustico
It seems to me that you're slightly misunderstanding what the protein percentage is used to judge in bread making. In the context of baking performance, when people talk about the protein content of flours that's basically shorthand for gluten forming protein. It's only the gluten forming proteins that will develop a stronger gluten network. Any other type of molecule that adds to the total protein content will not help with gluten development, and will probably hinder it instead.
Wheat contains a higher portion of gluten forming proteins than anything else (to my knowledge). So even if you find a grain with a higher total protein content listed on the nutritional info, it will still have a lower proportion of gluten forming proteins than any wheat flour. So replacing some of your wheat flour with that will lower the gluten content of your dough.
If you want your dough to have more gluten in it, unfortunately the only options are wheat flours with a higher protein percentage, e.g. bread flour and vital wheat gluten. Hope you're able to find what you're looking for.
“With a strong ap like King Arthur, I usually go 60% on the water and feed 1:3:5, 3:3:5, 5:3:5, or even 8:3:5 depending how long it will be going between feeds --- 12, 8, 4-6 hours or less, accordingly, or depending on temperature.”
Now we’re getting into it. And I didn’t take chemistry :-(
Seems the only way I’ll get High Protein Flour is to have it flown in. Real expensive! But if that Rustico Loaf presented in the link is any indication, I can use All Purpose Flour with an LM Starter. My brand of flour is Blanquita Enriched Wheat, pre-sifted with, according to the package, 3.2 grams of protein per cup of flour... less than 9.5%.
Okay, can I use this stuff to make that Rustico Loaf? And what’s an LM Starter and how do I get one?
Much thanks, everyone...
Katie
Sure you can. LM is not for you right now. Enjoy!
Blanquita ap supposedly has ~3g protein per 34g flour which would indeed be less than 9.5%, but that wouldn't be per 1 cup of flour. Packages usually base protein content on 30g flour which is less than 1/4 cup.
That flour is used in the Dominican. Is that where you are?
you should be able to make a crusty Italian bread using AP flour, water, salt and yeast. Here's a recipe from a fellow freshloafer -- https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/72700/straight-dough-emergency-italian-bread
if you worry blanquita brand has too little protein, you probably need to cut back on the water and do a bunch of kneading to develop the gluten.
Have fun trying it. Let us know how it goes.
Rob
I used to think that oat flour needs at least 75% hydration, until what I did recently cleaning up excess inventory. I had excess oat, dried bananas, and coconut oil, I just didn't want to put much energy on "leftover" bake, so I did 65% hydration and maybe less than 10% oil, with IDY. Surprisingly rose well in the oven
But there is a caveat, in the past I always skipped bulk ferment for sourdough because I live in the tropics, and time is my enemy. But because that batch I used IDY, I did bulk ferment until doubled, shaping was done without intentionally degassing the dough. See, dough that has been through bulk ferment usually has more volume after final shaping compared to dough that is shaped right after mixing. Which means doubling after final rise is more prominent in dough with bulk ferment than the one that isn't bulk fermented.
Nowadays for sourdough I only do bulk until 10% rise, and do poke test instead, because doubled dough that didn't undergo bulk ferment I feel always came out denser than my liking, and poke test does better job in that case.
Happy baking!
Jay
Hi guys. Sorry for the delay, my computer has crapped out.
Okay, I tried making a basic dough recipe at 60% hydration. Ended up with a sticky mess. Folded the dough over onto itself for ten-minutes, let it sit for three hours, repeated the process and let it sit over night. Still too gooey in the morning for traditional kneading. Started adding flour and folding until I finally was able to mold two small Ciabatta Loaves. They came out as hard as bullets and the crumb wasn't airy.
This morning I made a flat bread and mixed it up just eyeing the water, adding small amounts until things just “looked right.” It kneaded easily (about eight-minutes), and I let it rest for a half-hour (no yeast, just a touch of baking soda), and things worked out well for once.
So you guys are right. Using this Dominican flour, at 9.4% protein, I just have to forget following recipes and trust my instincts.
Thanks to all who helped me out here. Now... anyone know anything about computers?
Katie
Use the protein as a guide - if you work by hand. I stopped using a "guide" many many years ago. Once you learn you'll never go back. Computers - what's the problem - outside of it dying that is? Enjoy!
Things are kinda slow on TFL. What's the computer problem? I hope you backed up, backed up, backed up.
Ah-h my laptop...
A Lenovo Thinkpad X270 bought “refurbished” less than a year ago from Amazon. I had it flown in, turned it on the first time, adjusted the screen angle and it crashed. I'm guessing there's a broken electrical connection but too expensive to ship it back. Using it, I had to reboot every time the laptop got jostled... several times an hour.
A couple of mornings ago, I booted up and the computer started but the Manjaro Operating System didn't seem to load so I've got the splash screen but nothing else. Nothing functions. Tried the re-set button, then took the back off and jiggled the RAM and the SSD and everything else I could see, plus all the wires.
Nothing.
So if anyone has an idea, I could sure use the help.
Thanks,
Katie
Sounds serious. That's a Linux os, I gather. Maybe somebody can help.
It's probably a hardware problem and knowing that the OS is Linux won't help. If there isn't even a boot screen there's probably nothing to be done. If you can get to the BIOS setting screen, and by using someone else's computer, download a Linux live CD, you could try booting from it just to see if the machine can boot. If it does then the main disk drive is probably not working.
Don't hold this experience against Lenovo. I've had a Lenovo Yoga Pro 9i for 8 or 9 months so far and I like it a lot.
Several years ago I had a computer die, a relatively new one too. I opened it up and removed the RAM cards. You can get little cases that turn them into USB drives. That was a desktop computer and it may not be so feasible to remove the RAM from a laptop but it's worth considering. I loaded a Linux OS onto one of those drives (1/2 TB) and use it to run a 12-year-old Thinkpad. That computer has Windows 8 on its main (internal) spinning drive but after all these years its performance on Windows is painful. With Linux on a larger SSD it is very nice, even though the drive is external. I use it as a backup computer just in case something were to go wrong with my everyday one, which happened with my previous computer, the one before the Lenovo.
TomP
If possible - send it back and see what they say. Hopefully it's in their hands and can be - replaced - or repaired. Enjoy!
Take off bottom panel, remove battery for a while 15 min or so. Then replace and try again.
Amanda takes the cake...
Thanks so much for the computer battery tip, Amanda. And so easy too. I couldn’t imagine it would work but pulling the battery out for fifteen minutes and then re-booting gave me my computer back. I have all my files backed up but didn’t look forward to re-building my system. Anyway it worked and I can now worry about more important things... the taralli dough I have resting on my kitchen counter.
And thanks to everyone else here, for your time, concerns and suggestions. Much appreciated.
Katie
Excellent and I wouldn't have thought of it either.
TomP
Honestly, I was ready to suggest 'The Pineapple Juice Solution' -- till I realized you were talking start-up problems not starter problems.
Tho we're deep into the AI era, it's good to know that 'unplug it, wait for a bit, and plug it back in' is still a super valuable approach.
Rob