The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Would I LYE to you?

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Would I LYE to you?

 

While other lyes can be true, these are known to give the best results

Making Pretzels/Bagels: Sodium Hydroxide (often substituted since it can be dangerous to work with)

Making Ramen Noodles: kansui powder (potassium carbonate and sodium carbonate [which can be made from baking soda]) (Often substituted since it can be difficult to acquire)

Nixtamalization: Potassium Hydroxide - traditional lye made from wood ashes (addresses the low concentration of Cu, Zn and Fe common in tortillas) often substituted with Calcium Hydroxide which is not quite as nutritious.

‘Just a side note. If you find a recipe that uses a different lye, they cannot be exchanged unit for unit. The alkalinity is different so you would either need to calculate the difference or find a recipe with the recommended lye.

alcophile's picture
alcophile

Baking powder is a mixture of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and some solid acid like calcium acid phosphate. Any attempt to prepare sodium carbonate from baking powder it will likely cause it to decompose.

You can use baking soda by itself and heat it hot and long enough to drive off some CO2 to get the carbonate.

You can buy washing soda (Na carbonate decahydrate) at the grocer, but I don't know if it's suitable for food use.

FYI—the main nutritional advantage of nixtamalization is increased bio-availability of niacin in the corn.

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Brain slip. I intended to write soda, not powder.

That reminds me of the time I was telling a friend how to make peanut butter cookies. I can have something of a western drawl (especially to the ears of some northerners) so when I got to the Baking Powder ( again should have been baking soda)

He asked me: " Where do you buy BACON POWDER" and why would you put it in peanut butter cookies!

And yes, nixtamalization will work with several different lyes to prevent pellagra. Still, I've read several sources that clearly state there is a slight advantage in the bioavailability of nutrients in traditional wood ash lye.

alcophile's picture
alcophile

If you added bananas and that bacon powder to the peanut butter cookies you'd have Elvis cookies.

And the is such a thing as Bakon Powder:

https://bio-lallemand.com/savory-ingredients/brand/bakon/

I have some and it does taste like bacon!

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

very funny!

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

I understand that Sodium Hydroxide should not be heated for the Pretzels/Bagel bath is that correct?

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

just by mixing it in, but yes - that is my understanding. But I have read sources that boil bagels in the lye solution since it is more dilute than that used for pretzels.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

(Sodium Hydroxide) I am scared to actually use it! The only ingredient is sodium hydroxide. That being said, 100% sodium Hydroxide does not make the manufacturing process food safe. 

alcophile's picture
alcophile

I would definitely NOT use drain cleaner for any food purpose!

Please use food grade or USP grade lye for this purpose. And do handle it with care. Caustic burns are often much worse than acid burns.

 

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

I’d stick with food grade, you can pick it up on Amazon.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

for affirming my fears. 

Abe's picture
Abe

Baking Soda or some other substitute. Be safe! You wish to enjoy eating the pretzels. 

Isand66's picture
Isand66

You only need to use a 3-4% diluted solution of hydroxide food safe only.  It’s such a small amount that there is very little chance of hurting yourself unless you drink it.  There is no comparison if you want real tasting pretzels.

Abe's picture
Abe

Baking techniques like this were discovered. Most people would think it's it's not edible so no. But someone thought... well how about we try this? And with foods which are poisonous unless prepared in a special way, e.g. Cassava. 

Isand66's picture
Isand66

I always wondered the same thing.   It’s amazing how it changes the flavor profile so much.

Isand66's picture
Isand66

See my response below.  No reason to be afraid just don’t drink it and use food grade lye

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Ha, ha. If I get the pretzel bug again I'll find some food-grade stuff. 

jo_en's picture
jo_en

This is very common at Chinese groceries, and you are right that it is very good for noodles. It also is used to treat sweet rice.

 

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Please explain or provide link for treating rice!

jo_en's picture
jo_en

These are the Chinese sweet rice wrapped in leaves:

Note that the recipe uses baking soda but I use the kansui.

Take 3/4-1 tsp first  and mix it into the rice. Look at the color in #3 below.

Try to match that very light yellow color. Too much makes a bitter taste after the rice-in-leaf is boiled (adjust with a wee bit more if needed).  The leaves are great for mexican tamales (corn treated with lye) too.

 

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Wow, that is not what I was expecting. Very interesting. Why kind of leaves are those?

jo_en's picture
jo_en

ti leaves- the dried ones are also common at Chinese stores but the fresh ones are a lot better!

jo_en's picture
jo_en

I will try and find the technical name.