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Sourdough Bread suddenly tastes disgusting! HELP

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

Sourdough Bread suddenly tastes disgusting! HELP

Hello, 

I have been baking sourdough for about 8 years with no issues. We moved from TX to OK and about a month at our new to us (1980) house, my sourdough starter got some weird bubbles - soapy bubbles, and then the bread tasted absolutely disgusting. The rise wasn't great and it tasted like old yogurt/gym socks/bad cheese. So bad that we had to toss a sandwich loaf and two batches of hamburger buns. you could smell old gross yogurt and bad cheese while it was in the oven and it was very offensive. You can't pick up on the flavor as much in the artisan style loaves which is very odd. I decided my starter must have died somehow. I made a brand new starter with all fresh new ingredients in a clean vessel. After about a week, it passed the float test and so i decided to use it. It made 2 beautiful artisan style loaves that tasted fine and the one sandwich loaf which had the bad cheese taste again. Not as bad, but bad enough that no one wants to eat it. Its my usual go-to loaf I've made a million times. Good butter, sugar, salt, flour, starter, water. Basic. Can anyone tell me what on earth is happening and how I can fix it? At this point I'm wondering if our house is infested with some sort of bad microbes! Nothing else makes sense. I'm very sad. 

 

Maggie

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

As a side note, I've been waking up with allergy symptoms every day since we moved in and have been suspecting a mold issue in the home. I'm fine all day - including in the kitchen. But It's the only thing I can think of that could be a possible contributor to my problem. 

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Do you have a crawlspace? If so, have you been there? Does it smell moldy?

Your allergy-like symptoms make me wonder if mold could be your problem. Before we had our NC crawlspace sealed water would drip off the HVAC pipes in the summer. Lots of mold. A 1980's house was likely built with crawl space vents. These are worse than nothing in humid environments. 

It seems to me that you have controlled for all the other possibilities. Switching waters would be an easy experiment so try that but I'm concerned it might be in the air. 

I wish you the very best. I'll be happy to point you at some scientific papers on crawl spaces if you think that could be the problem.

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

We do not have a crawlspace, but I do know the previous owner had a leak in the shower that was repaired and I'm wondering if it was not repaired properly. I ordered a water immersion dust test that will test for toxic mold and others. If changing the water doesn't work, I will assume air quality issue.

Sugarowl's picture
Sugarowl

Do you have air conditioning ducts? Get those checked out. They might need to be cleaned, especially if there was a water leak. Mold can grow everywhere. I live in Florida and our church had a roof leak. Guess what? They neglected to get the AC vents checked for a few years, the ducts were very dirty and there was mold. It's always worth getting the ducts inspected if you live somewhere humid.

Also, get the shower inspected where it was patched. Depending on what kind of shower you have, you don't want to seal it completely to let the wall dry out, otherwise mold. We have a shower pan with tile walls. I made the mistake of letting some inexperienced helpers seal the gap between the pan and the tile. Now we have to undo that. It would be find if it was a tub, but now the humidity has no where to get out. (according to my husband, I know nothing about bathrooms and house construction).

As to changing your water, I have tried to use my tap water, but it has chloramine. That stuff does not evaporate and can impede starters. Like another person mentioned, try bottled water.

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

I have ordered a water intrusion mold test kit from assured bio and will be swabbing our AC and other parts of the house to check. I'll also be swabbing the bathroom and other parts of the house. But I'm thinking it's probably a bacterial infection and I'll need to sanitize every surface of my home and the air and honestly I don't know where to even start with that. And get the ducts cleaned/sanitized as well. I think quitting sourdough would be much easier. :(

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

I'm thinking that the combination of bottled water and sanitized dishes could do it.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Welcome to TFL.

Try swapping out one thing at a time.  My first guess would be the water.  Especially if you are using well water from your property.

So try bottled _spring_ water, which will have some good minerals.

Refresh your starter at least 3 times with the bottled spring water, and use bottled water to make the dough.

 

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

I only use RO water purchased from Sprouts. It has a TDS measurement of 4 - so quite pure! In TX I was using city water that was filtered through my Berkey (not pure I found out). 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

1. Are you using your own re-useable water containers that you take to the Sprouts store to be filled?   Could those containers be a possible source of the problem?

2. Be advised that when Mariana  and I comment on the same post, and give differing opinions/suggestions, it usually (always?) turns out that she's right. She is very experienced, including professional baking.  I'm just a home-baker who likes to play Sherlock Holmes.

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

1) yes I am bringing my own containers which i suppose could be contaminated?! I'm not sure how that would happen but I'm not ruling anything out at this point. 

2) That is not good news for me! Water is an easy fix. Air Quality is not. Air quality has a suspected issue since we moved in sadly but it seems like an extremely challenging fix. Imagine people living with this and just not knowing it b/c they don't have a starter. lol! yikes. 

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

Welcome to TFL if this is your first post.  What was your source of water at your Texas home and what is the source in Oklahoma?

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

Water in TX was filtered city water through my berkey. Water here is RO water from sprouts that has about 4 TDS - which is a ton purer than my berkey water. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I'd bet it's the water.  Switch to a commercial bottled (not something bottled there in the store) spring water.   Use the new water for both feeding starter and making dough.

I use Crystal Geyser brand from Big Lots.

Some lazy or untrained store employees may have allowed something to happen to their RO and bottling equipment.

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Good theory! And easy to test. 

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

I will give this a try. Come to think of it, I was using my berkey water for the first few weeks of living here with no sourdough problems.. and as another commenter said - easy theory to test. I will do this and get back to you! Also, gross to think about. 

mariana's picture
mariana

Your guess is right, it's something in the air, in bioaerosol. It can be temporary or a permanent problem. Some microbes in the air kill a starter, it begins to smell empty, like plain flour and water mix, while others make starters unbelievably stinky, producing rancid odors.

I had that problem twice in my house in the last 10 years and three months of switching to yeast baking was enough for the air in the house to completely change and I could returm to sourdough baking. The first time I did not know what caused, the second time I know what I did to cause it (I brought home contaminated rye kernels from another country and was sprouting them and those microbes proliferated).

A girlfriend of mine had to send me her terribly stinky starter once (from Norway to Canada!) for me to repair it. It her old rural house with moist air it was spoiling quickly, bit in a cleaner apartment of mine with very dry air, in form of a stiff white starter, fed every 8 hours, it would repair itself within three days. Another case of stinky starter given to me to repair, it had a bad case of infestation with Clostridium acetobutylicum. It would smell nice upon feeding it and become unbelievably stinky once mature. I had to feed it strictly anaerobically keeping it cold all the time in my wine fridge in order to kill off that microorganism that thrives in warm starters.

Another friend of mine has it in his old restaurant kitchen so bad that it's permanent. He is unable to do sourdoughbaking at all, only baking with soda or commercial yeast. All sourdough starters, wether purchased or homemade, spoil in his kitchen right away.

Try switching to yeasted baking for three months, Maggie, and see if the air in your house, in your kitchen, changes meanwhile, becoming safe for your sd starter(s).

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

The odd thing is that the starter smells fine. It's only the dough and baked bread I'm having trouble with! 

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

If I assume that the air in my home is bad for baking sourdough (which I do.. my new starter I just made a couple weeks ago is now dead, though I cared for it the way I have always cared for my starters). How do I go about sanitizing my entire home? (specifically the air.....) I'm losing hope. 

mariana's picture
mariana

Maggie, I am sorry about your starter(s), both of them. It's heartbreaking.

There is no way of knowing what causes it. Starters get sick or die in a variety of ways, bacterial contamination and viruses (viruses that attack sourdough bacteria) are two most deadly causes. Molds are usually not that bad, they only affect the surface of the starters, not their very nature. Sometimes, just the change of temperature affects them (too warm or too cold).

The cheapest solution is to just wait. Meanwhile, bake with yeast or soda breads, etc. For sourdough flavor, true sourdough aroma and taste, try one day flas (sourwort, as shown in one of this forum topics) - it's a flourless sourdough starter. It can be made anaerobically, in a sealed container, and it takes only 1-2 days to make. After that it is immediately kept refrigerated and will not get sick. Example

Within three months the air will (or might) change enough for you to create and maintain a traditional sourdough starter safely. It might be a seasonal problem, then it will get better in winter, or something enters your house with 'fresh air' from the street, from you neighbors, from surrounding vegetation or soil, etc. 

If not, if after three months of simply waiting the problem persists, there are tons of solutions, from the single approach - to get a good air purifier, to attacking indoor air quality problem from many directions: air purifier, furnace and air conditioner filters, vacuuming flours and walls with a good vacuum cleaner, etc. The list is here:

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/lists/get-better-indoor-air-quality/

Please, do not lose hope. Stay strong. I am sure you will find a good solution, there is a lot of them to choose from, or it will spontaneously get better soon simply with the change of seasons. 

best wishes, 

m. 

Abe's picture
Abe

It sounds like some similar contaminant. Rope will not make your starter/bread smell but it will make it slimy. This one doesn't make it slimy. Has an odd off smell but not as bad as you're describing. Either it is the water or some bacterial 'infection' in your house. Might be a good idea to first use different water and see if that helps. If not then treat it like rope and thoroughly clean your kitchen. This means using a vinegar solution clean every nook and cranny in your kitchen and deep clean all utensils and plates. You've moved into a new house and who knows what else inhabits that kitchen. 

If this does not help then at least you can cross it off your list and you'll have a thoroughly sanitized kitchen. 

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

I'm sorry, I do not know what rope is! Can you inform?

Abe's picture
Abe

But i'm thinking it could be a similar cause, i.e. a bacteria. So therefore treated the same way. 

Rope is a bacteria which makes a bread slimy and stringy (rope). It also has a weird smell but not as bad as what you're describing. All seems to go well until it's baked. The only way to get rid of rope is a thorough cleaning with an acidic cleaner, like a vinegar, or bleach. If a bacteria is the cause this might help. But you really have to clean absolutely everything in your kitchen. Worktops, cupboards, drawers, floor, utensils, plates.... everything. Of course you'll also need to start a new starter once this has been done in a new jar. I'd also throw out the old flour and buy new. Come to think of that have you tried that already? Is your flour rancid? 

Hopefully it's just the water so try changing that first. If that doesn't help then time to take it to the next level. Before you clean your kitchen like this make sure you're using the correct strength cleaner and look up how to sanitize a kitchen to get rid of rope. 

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43626/possible-rope-bread-please-help

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

Thank you! It does not sound like rope, but I am thinking it could be bacterial of some sort and a good cleaning might be good. I am using a new batch of flour as well. We are getting mold testing done in the house and may need a complete gut of things like the AC system, carpet, etc. So I suppose if that happens I'll just deep sanitize the entire house and hope. I might also try starting a starter/dough in a different room of the house.... just as a secondary experiment. Will definitely try the water first! Thanks.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I think before I gutted everything I would spray/mist everything in the kitchen and pantry with a vinegar solution and let it dry before maybe going over with soap and water.  Don't forget all surfaces inside and out, screens, curtains, window sills, ceiling, everything.  Be careful with spraying near electrical plugs and lights.  Keep root veggies away from flour and baking ingredient. 

Having the house tested is a good idea.  

 

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

It sounds like your sourdough has a bacterial infection. While thoroughly cleaning your baking environment is never a bad idea, a healthy established sourdough's "immune system" normally protects itself.

I've read that Pineapple juice is used when starting a culture to help prevent bad bacteria from competing against the good stuff giving the systems you want at play, time to take over.

I'd start with adding a little pineapple juice to your refreshment to help the good guys fight off the infections and get better. I think using a different water source should accompany that change since the water may be the source of the bacterial infection.

Maggie Scalf's picture
Maggie Scalf

Hello everyone,

As many of you have suggested, I started with water. I bought jugs of bottled water rather than refilling my jug at the dispenser. I started another new starter with new water and i also started feeding the other starter with that same water. They BOTH made great bread! I was surprised that the old starter that was contaminated with something from the water was able to resolve. I also was bringing a friend's new starter that she bought online back to life. All 3 did great with new bottled water. I'm very thankful it was not an air quality issue! and totally grossed out about Sprouts RO dispenser. 

Thank you!

Maggie

GaryBishop's picture
GaryBishop

Hooray! I'm glad you found the issue. 

Thank you for reporting on your results. Your experience may help others having such problems.

Gary