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Weird question about dough volume

TracyF's picture
TracyF

Weird question about dough volume

Hi there,

I know this might sound super strange, but I was wondering if it's possible for sourdough during the bulk fermentation to double in volume and still not be properly proofed?

Yesterday I made some sourdough and even when it was almost doubled in volume, it had relatively few small bubbles and almost no large ones showing in the side of the glass container it was in. I handled it and it had very nice elasticity and strong gluten formation, so I set it aside for a few more minutes and then it did develop a few bubbles.

Today when I baked it, the loaf was flat and the crumb was pretty open but didn't look like the truest photos of really good, even open crumb, so it almost seems like it was under-proofed. Is that possible with such a large change in volume?!

The primary difference in my process yesterday was that I used my cousin-in-law's method of mixing with a stand mixer instead of by hand, just to try it out, because I have seen his excellent results just recently.

Still trying to figure this stuff out, appreciate any input you all have!

Thanks,
Tracy

phaz's picture
phaz

Short answer - yes. But, this bulk as it's called is not proofing and any relation between the 2 is pretty irrelevant. X hours of bulk and not getting the expected result - well, hours are also kinda irrelevant. A dough is ready when it's ready and it tells you, clocks won't do that. Outside of that, not enough info to make a determination on anything really. Enjoy! 

pendragon's picture
pendragon (not verified)

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zestandfizz's picture
zestandfizz

It sounds like you've developed your dough well enough--you're mixing my machine and you say it feels strong. You also say the loaf was flat, and the crumb was open, so I would say you've over-proofed the dough. This would certainly fit with your observation that it has doubled in volume.

I usually like to do a "post-mortem" (yeast and bacteria cultures being the dead things here) after my bake. I take a look at the shape of the loaf, the crust, and then I cut into the bread and make an assessment based on everything I see.

Are you familiar with the signs of over and under-fermentation? An under-fermented loaf will have larger holes (often called fools crumb), but very few small holes. Conversely, an over-fermented loaf will be flat (as you seem to have noted here), and will have lots of small holes. Somewhere in between (lots of small holes, and a decent smattering of large ones) and you're in the right ballpark for well-proofed.

You say the crumb was open--would you say there many large holes or was it dominated by many small holes? A photo would be super.

TracyF's picture
TracyF

Sorry I got busy and didn't end up getting back here, but I appreciate the input.

I didn't take a photo, and alas the loaf is gone, but I think next time I will take some pics for that post-mortem you mention. I did look at photos of under vs. overproofed dough and felt like the dough was actually pretty well proofed based on the crumb, but a photo would be better for you guys to offer input on that! Next time!

This week I was doing more reading and find it frustrating how much conflicting info there is on how much the dough should increase in volume during bulk fermentation: some say it should double, some only 25-30% increase before you shape, etc. But next time I think I am going to try for more of a 30% increase and just shape it at that point regardless, and see how that works out.

zestandfizz's picture
zestandfizz

No worries! A photo would definitely be ideal. Keep us posted.

Asking for doubling is pretty standard, but it really depends on what sort of bread you're making. Some recipes even call for the dough to triple. For me, just before it hits double (80 to 90%) is ideal for many recipes that ask for double. To make your life easier, bulk proof in a container that has straight, glass sides. These pyrex storage containers are great for that purpose.

At the end of the day, everyone's circumstances are different--their starter, mix of flours, water, ambient temperature, etc. For that reason, prescribing anything is misleading. The best way to find what works for you in your kitchen is to take note of what failed, make a small change, see if it improves, and then repeat that process until you hit the sweet spot. It sounds like you're already doing that, so good luck!

TracyF's picture
TracyF

Will do re: the photos and stuff!

In terms of the type of bread, I'm specifically talking sourdough. I make other breads somewhat regularly now and usually do look for double the volume. But for sourdough and oven spring, I'm finding that that's not quite right. The reading I'm doing seems to suggest that more people aim for 30-50% rise, not 100%, before shaping. And I think when I first started and didn't know what I was doing, I got better spring that way, LOL. Live and learn.

phaz's picture
phaz

Something i learned a long long time ago - when I'm not sure if a putt is gonna go left or right - split the difference and let it roll. Ya go from there, and with a little luck learn something. Enjoy!