Pandan coconut milk sourdough
This was a partially successful experiment using pandan extract and coconut milk. The final bake leaves something to be desired, but my first attempt was a major fermentation fail. In the first attempt, I failed to account for the reduction in hydration caused by replacing all the skim milk with full fat coconut milk. The increased enrichment and decreased hydration caused fermentation and rise of the dough to go extremely slowly. At first I thought that something must have gone wrong with my levain but in the end I don’t think that was the primary problem. That dough in total was baked after 36 hours of rise a combination of warm and cool temperatures. In the end the dough rose only a bit in the oven and had an excessively sour flavour.
So thinking about trying this again, I decided to increase the hydration by increasing the pandan extract in the dough. The problem of course was that the dough ended up being a greater weight than I usually use and as a result had way too much of a mushroom top to it. Also despite a longer bake the sides couldn’t hold the weight of the top of the bread and started to collapse in on itself. Not a stellar result. Hopefully this bread will taste alright. I’ve never tasted pandan, just hearing about it from some Asian bakers so I wanted to try it out. If we actually like this flavor, I’ll try again and also reduce the dough weight by maybe 100 g to reduce the crazy mushroom top and subsequent collapsing sides. Oh I also used the 0.5 tsp of IDY because I wanted this to be ready today.
For Pullman 9x4x4” pan
Sweet Stiff Starter - overnight cool room temperature
• 53g bread flour
• 24g pandan extract
• 18g sugar
• 18g sourdough starter ~100% hydration
Tangzhong classic 1:5 ratio
• 52g coconut milk + 37 g pandan
• 18g bread flour
Dough Dry Ingredients
• 360g bread flour
• 50g sugar (reduced from 59g)
• 7g salt
(Optional IDY 0.5 tsp)
Dough Wet Ingredients
• 77g coconut milk
• 62 g pandan extract + 53 g (to compensate for the low water in coconut milk)
• 59g egg beaten (about 1 ⅕ of a large egg)
• 67g melted butter
Total flour = 431 g
The tangzhong, levain and all the wet ingredients were mixed then added the dry ingredients mixing on low until no dry flour. Rested for 10-15 mins, then mixed on high until good gluten development.
After 2-2.5 hour of bulk I placed it in the fridge for 1 hour. after this divided, shaped into boules and then into swirled rolls. Placed into pullman pan alternating the swirls.
Baked 350ºF for 50 mins then taken out of pan and placed back in over for another 10 - 15 mins bake. Watch the top crust as it may get too dark too quickly so may need to be shielded.
Comments
Sounds interesting What does the pandan taste like?
I wonder if you could treat coconut milk as fat+water, then account for the fat% by reducing butter / egg and increasing added water accordingly?
Additionally, a yudane might provide more strength vs a tangzhong.
I have no idea what pandan tastes like yet, I’ll slice this collapsing loaf later on and post the crumb.
I estimated the coconut milk to be 68% water and added the remaining 32% water missing in pandan extract. The colour of this canned extract doesn’t seem to carry through to the bake unlike what I’ve seen on Instagram from other bakers. They must be using some other product that has much more colouring in it.
I considered reducing the butter, but I like the flavour it imparts these breads so left the butter and egg the same.
Benny
This is the second loaf with the huge heavy mushroom top.
29EE8085-026B-45C6-A9E9-E776AD8358BB.jpeg
1DE0569B-2B06-4EFD-BCC7-F7085F22972D.jpeg
BD2EEEDB-5425-4CB4-BB4F-7FEEF047181B.jpeg
This is the super sour first loaf. It ended up in the bin.
40978897-6099-4DE0-B16B-7B2854C65003.jpeg
This loaf was heavy but I’ve never had blisters on this type of loaf before.
Despite how much pandan extract I used I cannot taste it. There are other products similar in idea to almond extract that I saw In Chinatown, however, none of those contained any natural pandan so I didn’t buy them. I’d say there are better pandan products to use than what I tried. This is no better and in fact not as good as my regular Hokkaido sourdough milk bread. Oh well back to the drawing board.
FB1CF89D-DF2B-4F9D-A4C0-4903398B28B4.jpeg
F6CD4F72-1CC9-4686-B56E-F889C9BE95D0.jpeg
Sorry this one didn't turn out like you'd hoped, but on the plus side, you know two things that don't work! :-)
This is true Troy, every bake is a learning experience.
That's too bad. Essences can get lost in a bake... some options are pandan butter glaze after, pandan topping, pandan spread/jam that you spread in the dough before rolling up. Or a secondary pandan rich dough you roll inside like the recent rye swirl.
I’ll have to make something with the remaining pandan extract from that can to see if I like the flavour enough to try making this again. Someone on IG told me that the pandan colour needs an alkaline pH to retain its green colour. Thanks for the suggestions David.
My grandmother always puts pandan leaves whenever she cooks rice back then but really I never tasted that pandan flavour ever since but surely we can smell that wonderfull aroma.
Carlo, it seems many SE Asians have fond memories of pandan growing up, and those still in Asia seem to enjoy the flavor a lot.
I included a tangzhong made with the canned pandan juice (labeled extract) instead of using milk....that was to cover the softness issue. That also gives more pandan flavour. (Made tangzhong using 5% of 300g flour and that number x 5 to get pandan amount.
The milk in the recipe was then changed to canned pandan juice. I kept the 40g of butter (to 300g total recipe flour) which also worked out well. I used instant yeast and baking powder together. Now I should try it with sourdough. See if I also get delayed rise. It was really sad that my other ingredients for the filling overpowered the pandan flavour. If you have any extra pandan and don't want to waste it, tip in in as water in your next batch of cooked rice. Or use it to make a glaze for the bread.
Wow, you really got some neat textures and color on your crusts! That last one would look really cool on Floyd's Frog bread. :)
Bubbles have a fun crunch when fresh or toasted.
I’d be interested to see if you have a very slow fermentation as well if you try it with sourdough only Mini.
making a levain using the pandan juice/extract. Might be interesting if it changes color too with time.
Here's what I did...
Place in two identical glasses, level, mark (here is when I wish I had a couple of those specimen jars) and observe. 21°C in the kitchen....I better find a warm spot or we'll be here all night. 6 pm here.
Yes as I wrote earlier someone said for the natural green colour to hold it needs an alkaline environment, maybe this is why I’ve noticed the artificial extract uses artificial colour and flavour.
being high to keep color. Was reading a pandan chiffon cake recipe that asks for 1/2 teaspoon of vinegar. Also contains fresh pressed pandan. I remember fresh as a much stronger green.
https://www.nyonyacooking.com/recipes/pandan-chiffon-cake~HyFfdDiwzcWQ
http://utpedia.utp.edu.my/14108/1/13780_CHONGKARYEEN_Dissertation.pdf
After 12 hours (overnight) I don't see much difference. Not enough to say one was slower than the other. Pandan is on the right side. Looking at the scum line, both 100% hydration starters rose in the night and this morning at the same level at 23°C. I will add 20g more flour to thicken them up to 71% hydration and race them again. Both taste sour. Sour pandan...not sure I like it...prefer it sweeter.
IMG_2322.JPG
IMG_2320.JPG
IMG_2324.JPG
Looking forward to bulk and the bake.
Hi Benny, sorry it didn't work, I'm currently believing that the fermentation gods are just fickle.
On the plus side just look at that gluten coming out of the mixer! Wow!
-Jon
Thanks Jon. It happens, what can you do. On the other hand I can say that a long slow fermentation gives you crazy sour bread if that is your thing.
Fortunately the bread tastes good, however, it wasn’t better than a simpler Hokkaido milk bread.
by raising the pH?
What would you do to raise the pH mini? Adding a bit of bicarb?
yup