The Fresh Loaf

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Changes moving from 1:2:1.1 to 1:5:5.5

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Changes moving from 1:2:1.1 to 1:5:5.5

As much as it kills me, because it was going so well and I feel I was staying true to M. Rubaud's formulas and baking creed, I'm growing tired of refreshing the stiff chef every 5 hours, then trying to slow it overnight to some extent so I could sleep without waking to a stressed little gem of a levain.  

So, I moved from 1:2:1.1 (50:100:55 grams) to 1:5:2.8 (10:50:27-28 grams).  Not only have I drastically lowered the chef in the ratio, but I've cut in half the amount of flour so the total chef is reduced from 155 g (already much less than his working chef, or even Marie-Claire's chef, itself a reduction) to 88 g.  Thus falls mass effect.

I'm to get on a twice per day schedule, allowing me to refresh my liquid rye and this chef at the same time.  The chef is maintained at 78F, per M. Rubaud's admonition to never let the starter drop below 72F.  I could let it go at the same temp as the rye, which is room temp, but I figure I'm already stressting the chef considerably so want to keep the tekp parameter the same.

Could anyone, perhaps Debra or another, predict what changes I might obtain in terms of yeast and LAB balance?  I don't know population dynamics at all well so don't know what to expect.  I prefer a sweeter levain, with great yeast leavening and some souring, but a "clean" souring as a background note. (E.G. for me, in my rye, a very evident and pleasing quality of snap-green apples).

 

Thanks,

Paul

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Paul, you’ve got some unusual feed ratios. Not a bad thing, just over complicating, IMO. What are you trying to accomplish? I’m not familiar with Rubaud’s starter maintenance.

After years of experimentation, I’ve come to believe that starter maintenance is not near as complicated as we make them out to be.

I spent 2 to 3 grueling months trying to get a strong Lieveto Madre. I know how demanding these routines can get. 

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Hey Dan - 

The Rubaud chef refers to the late French master baker, Gerard Rubaud.  He was intense in his devotion to the craft, and treated levain like an infant needing care.  I have always pursued things this way, and his creed appealed to me.  Plus, he was about as authentically old-school French as it gets, which is very close to my heart.  Check out MC/Marie-Claire/Farine (tons here, and her site). (I know you know her well, just in the event someone newer isn't familiar with M. Rubaud or MC).

It is fantastic starter.  The only issue is that it got so robust, it was easily tripling within 5 hours, which was also his schedule for refreshing - literally, around the clock; I'm an insomniac so that fit with me, too.

That said, believe it or not, I am at least teasing letting go a bit, which for me takes some doing.  Ergo, 2 refreshments per day on both my liquid rye and this chef.  The only problem, going with what was a basic "rule" (to the extent we can call them that) of the Rubaud approach is to always have a 1:2 starter:flour ratio, with hydration somewhere 55-58%.  Again, this locks me into several feeds daily, so as I'm trying to find a way to pull it back, I was curious what this 1:5 would do.  I could also put it in cooler (say, 54F), but Debra (Wink) intimated that's OK for a periodic need, but not as a maintenance regime.  

Just my makeup, man.  I don't just train in martial arts, I undertake a resident (live-in) discipleship with a martial arts and zen master, my late teacher Fumio Toyoda Rokuji.  Voila, moi. :)

 

Edit:  I hope I read you right - but am thinking you must know Rubaud, maybe just not familiar with his levain protocol.  So, sorry if I was stating the obvious and already known to you.  This 1:2 is a sort of bedrock, by my interpretation of MC and her site.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I failed with the LM. Unfortunately I have no experience with your present endeavor.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

No worries of course, Dan.  Thanks for your thoughts.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

1:1.1:2 (10:55:100) to 1:5.8:5 (10:28:50) - something is off with these numbers. Assuming you give grams in the brackets, the ratios are actually 1:5.5:10 and 1:2.8:5? Did you swap them around as well? And I guess you give starter:water:flour? I think more often flour comes before water btw in this notation, but I guess there are no rules.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

His is 1 part chef, 2 parts flour (his special blend of 70% BF, 30% of a blend of winter and spring hard wheats, spelt, rye), and about 1.1 part water for a stiff starter of 55-57% hydration (he emphasizes not going past 60% hydration).  He also stresses not to reduce the total amount, and gives mass effect a pretty high importance, again, by my interpretation.  I just can't waste that much food, so I was doing 50 g chef/levain, 100 g flour blend., 55-57 g water, or 1:2:1.1.

I'm trying to slow things down without screwing up this pretty wonderful biome.  A mild, sweet starter which if not overly drawn out between refreshments gives the proper balance (for me) of leavening and souring.  I'm recalling Debra's comments from another thread (on retarding when going away), and I guess have a nagging thought moving from 1:2:1.1 to1:5:5.5, or 10 g starter, 50 grams flour blend, and 55-57 grams water. 

Edit:  holy moly, I did screw up the figures, sorry.  My brain goes in and out with fogginess, and let's just say I wasn't sharp as a whip when I posted.  I hope I have it at least correct, now, lol.

Edit 2:  Argh!  Corrected ratio orders,  My mistake, thanks for pointing it out.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Looks right in your comment here now, thanks! You can also edit your original post to avoid any confusion for others.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Crossed in the mail, lol.  Sorry for the mess.

 

Edit:  hahahah, good lord man.  I should just give up.  ORIGINAL post now also edited.  I hope.  I hope correctly, lol!