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Best strategy to leave a (Rubaud) stiff starter unattended for a couple days

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Best strategy to leave a (Rubaud) stiff starter unattended for a couple days

My son is taking me camping for a couple days.  Normally I'd not give any thought to taking a starter with about 3 hours or so into a refreshment, and putting in the refrigerator for a couple days.  

However, I'm pretty smitten with this stiff culture, the "Rubaud" chef.  I know that with time any culture will tend to stabilize in the environment it's kept in but I really would like to treat this stuff well and disrupt its microbial ecology as little as possible.  Any advice on the best way to deal with leaving it unattended for a couple days?

I've done as little as a 1% levain inoculation for a very slow bulk ferment, following some things I'd seen on some French sites.  That gave me about 20 hours at room temp.  I don't know populations dynamics well and so don't know whether doing a massive ratio and leaving it in the cooler part of our kitchen (we seem to have a pretty stable set at 67, 70, 74 and 76 - remote sensors to our bedroom) will be as disruptive as cooling it at standard seeding at fridge temps (or the regular fermentation temp of 78 with even less seeding).  I really don't know anything about this.

Any advice on the best way to proceed?  Note this chef has the 70:30 BF: Blend (of which, 60% WW, 30% spelt, 10% rye) and 1% salt, per Rubaud.  I normally refresh every 5.5 hours, so obviously many times per day.

Thanks.

Briancoat's picture
Briancoat

I probably under-think stuff but I feel a few days in the fridge after a generous feed is unlikely to wreak any ecological havoc on your mini biosphere.

If anxious you could take out  a couple of free insurance policies : a dried sample and a frozen sample. Both are essentially dormant and recover to as-new.

 

 

phaz's picture
phaz

2 very simple options. Keep cold so it doesn't need food, add x amount of food and keep warmish (x being number of days it'll be left alone). Enjoy!

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks guys.  I know these are all viable solutions in that the culture won't implode.

I'd really like to find the least disruptive adjustment so as to maintain the highest viability and vitality of the flora, and the population ratios - as much as possible, under this less than optimal circumstance. 

To narrow it down, perhaps one of 4:

1.  Very low seeding, normal ferment temp of 78; 

2.  Very low seeding, moderately depressed ferment temp of 73, or 70 (I can choose either - both are stable);

3.  Normal seeding, refreshment fermentation of 2-3 hours, then into standard refrigerator (e.g., not "optimal" cooler temp of 10C or so); 

4. Lower seeding, otherwise same as (3).

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

If this is a cherished starter that has been maintained at room temp continuously, and it's only going to be 2-3 days, I would leave it ambient, but move it to one of your cooler spots --- the 70 probably, or 67F. I would also leave out the whole grains from the last feed, and wait until your return to add them back in and bring it back to 78F. Reduce the inoculation in the final feed (but not too crazy), and reduce the hydration a little more if it's not too stiff to do that. All those things will buy your starter more time. It may look pretty sad when you get back, but should bounce back within a few refreshments.

Put the discard from your final feed in the refrigerator as a backup. As long as it isn't overripe, there's no need to feed that piece until your return should you need to go back to it. You can try other approaches like drying, freezing etc. in addition to the above, but without knowing which organisms are making your starter what it is, or whether they will all survive those treatments or even extended refrigeration (some do, some don't), why chance it? Keep at least one at room temp :-)

Enjoy your trip!
dw

 

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Fantastic.  Thank you for your help again, Debra.

If you happen to see this:  I'm an interested layman in fermentation science.  My cognitive abilities have declined rather markedly in certain areas due to a neuro condition so while I used to have a handle (cheese & brewing) on various aspects, large lacunae in memory and ability to understand and remember things now.

That said, if I work at it, I can at least conceptually understand many things, even if retaining them is difficult.  Would you have any particular resource (book, preferably - I like holding a physical copy in my hands) that gives a good if fairly rudimentary primer on bread science?

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Unfortunately, there aren't many sources of reliable bread science in lay language. The only book I know of is Emily Buehler's Bread Science (Two Blue Books). Her background is chemistry, so that's what the book is written around, but she does so in language that is very easy to understand. I would start there. I can't speak to books about other food fermentations as I haven't reviewed any other than bread

I prefer to hold a book too when it comes to reference books. Sometimes it just helps (and saves time) to be able to flip back and forth through real pages, and I can remember physical locations of information better  :)

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Debra the point you just made is a perfect reason for you to publish a book. 

I know it is asking a lot of you, but a book on the subject of sourdough starters that the average baker can comprehend is not available at this time.

Danny

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

But it is a very long process.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

I'm too new on the ladder so I begged off, not wanting to be presumptuous, but, ahem - I'm with Danny.  I know it must be a massive undertaking but if you ever considered doing it, I'd think there would be a tremendous market for your work.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Debra, as it turns out, leaving imminently on family business.  The starter is strong - easily 3.5X now in 3 hours.

I have been cutting the time down between feedings rather than changing anything else.  I have retarded at 12C per a suggestion by mariana, as this bread is interspersed with my newfound forays into Baltic and German rye baking.  Alot of bread to feed friends!

Couple of questions, if you happen to see this.

1.  Before introducing pure BF to slow the critters down, should I basically titrate down, so it's not from Rubaud blend to BF in one feeding, then on to a stressor in time?

2.  How do you feel about this? I have basically retarded at 3, 2, 1 hour(s), 45min refresh but under all, even with the short refreshment before cooing at 12C, this chef is really strong and is rocking still within several hours.

Currently, 55% hydration, with 1:2 on the starter to flour.  Your opinion on 1:4 or even 1:5, 55%, 1 hour out at 78F, in cooler at 12C for a couple days?  I worry that if I leave it out at room temp, even the coolest part of the kitchen, I could go 1:10 and it would still go nuts by the tine I get back (gone tomorrow morning - final refreshment - back Thursday.  

Appreciate the help, from yourself or anyone with expertise here.

Thanks,

Paul

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Before introducing pure BF to slow the critters down, should I basically titrate down, so it's not from Rubaud blend to BF in one feeding, then on to a stressor in time?

No, one time only. You don't want to make gradual or prolonged changes if the object was to preserve the microbial profile you had developed at room temperature. When you change the conditions across multiple feeds, you change the environment in your starter and invoke natural selection to start changing the microbial profile. That's not to say it won't still be a healthy starter that raises bread, but it may not have the same character if you lose one of the populations. Otherwise you could just put it in the refrigerator and not worry about it.

Currently, 55% hydration, with 1:2 on the starter to flour.  Your opinion on 1:4 or even 1:5, 55%, 1 hour out at 78F, in cooler at 12C for a couple days?  I worry that if I leave it out at room temp, even the coolest part of the kitchen, I could go 1:10 and it would still go nuts by the tine I get back (gone tomorrow morning - final refreshment - back Thursday.  

If it were me, I'd have kept everything as you were doing up until the last feed before leaving, made changes only on the one feed for the time you're gone -- 1:4 is reasonable (saving the discard in the fridge just in case) -- and resume normal feeding when I get back. It may be completely deflated in 3 days at room temperature, but can be brought back to full power within a week, probably less. There isn't much difference ripening time-wise between 1:4 and 1:5, but I think 1:10 could change the dynamic too much. You starter is strong, so it's not going to die in 2-3 days.

Relax and enjoy your trip :-)
dw

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Great, thank you Debra, for explaining to this interested layperson.  We leave tomorrow a.m. so I'll keep it near our kitchen cool area (about 68F - OK?), and go with your advice.  Thank you so much. 

I'm such a freak about this stuff - used to make French alpine cheeses and if we went for a couple days, I conned neighbors to come in and give the morge washes for fear of disrupting the rind ecology.  Relax is good advice.

Very grateful as always.  

Paul

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Just got back and reporting the starter seems a bit miffed and depressed, but not so surly as to die on me.  Moderate souring and a small quality of acetone but no true off flavors. Thanks, Debra, first refresh back with a Rubaud blend and I think everything will be just fine.

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Hopefully it will bounce back as the very same starter that you left. I would expect it to. Brief, occasional breaks from routine shouldn't upset the established order in your starter too much to come back from. Brief and occasional being the keywords. Prolonged and frequent create more instability, and invite the change of natural selection.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Thanks again, Debra.  Period prior to first refreshment (after last night's "recovery" refreshment) had it 4X at 5hrs, so viability doesn't seem to be an issue.  At next refreshment I'll check pH.  Mostly I just intend on going on sensory evaluation, now that I've been tasting refreshments each time for weeks.  

Debra Wink's picture
Debra Wink

Sounds like all is well :-)