The Fresh Loaf

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"Sweeter" pain au levain and chef/levain process

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

"Sweeter" pain au levain and chef/levain process

Reading through MC's notes on M. Rubaud's process, I came across a comment where he indicated to her that refreshing at chef doubling v. tripling gains an add'l 15-30 % in new growth wild yeast.  I'm not certain that was his preference, and so at least at one point in time he refreshed at this stage, or it was just a note to her on what coud be expected at doubling v. tripling.  I am surmising the former.

Comparing to Tartine, also emphasizing yeast and more immature levain, he indicates 1:5:5 refreshings for reduced acid load.

Granting Rubaud's is stiff and Tartine's is liquid starter, neither is fully "ripe", and if seeking a sweeter overall bread emphasizing yeasts and lactic over acetic acid notes, any comments on how these two methods compare?

(I've always looked for 3X within 8 hours for stiff levains; within 5-6 hours for liquid.  Not saying either is a good benchmark, but it's been my practice).

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

phaz's picture
phaz

How long it takes to double or whatever isn't really relative on its own. If one is following a recipe with detailed instructions, it should be followed. Doubling or tripling is changing concentrations (for reasons most obvious) and that will throw off other instructions (timings in particular), and that just gets messy. If i were to follow a recipe using my starter, I'd have soup in a couple hrs (it is as highly concentrated starter). Do what the recipe says. I should note - this comes from someone who never followed a strict recipe for anything. Enjoy!

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

Hi Phaz,

 

Sorry for the delay, bit under the weather.

Thanks very much.  This is my best attempt to pursue Gerard Rubaud's pain au levain, though I know that was also not a static thing.  I don't really have any recipe so much as indications from some members here and from blogs such as MC's.

I'd presumed tripling was the basis for his builds but then came his comment on doublings being the most propitious stage for yeast, and thus leavening, growth.  I guess I took that comment and perhaps unduly married it to the general French preference (mine, also), for sweeter, more subtle levains.

I think more, a general question on this notion of optimizing for yeast at doublings, v. LABs with longer chef builds.  Thoughts?

Doc.Dough's picture
Doc.Dough

I suspect (from Gänzle's sensitivity coefficients) that if you refresh to a pH that is close enough to 3.8 that the numerical density of LAB does not recover to greater than the pre-refresh fraction before the LAB stops replicating (pH ~3.8), then the yeast gains an advantage during that feeding cycle. 1:2:2 should give the yeast an even larger advantage than 1:5:5, though you have to feed it twice to get to the same end point.  And that is just to build your levain, not for starter maintenance which needs a larger refresh so that the relative population densities return to their values in the original seed culture.

Gadjowheaty's picture
Gadjowheaty

^^

Thank you!  That's a lot to go on.  Looking forward to experimenting with this, and this was really helpful - though I have to admit my native wiring means this will take some work to fully understand it.  I know enough, I think, to see in.  Fantastic - very much appreciated.

 

Paul