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Rerun of Nobleman's rye bread

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Rerun of Nobleman's rye bread

Wanted to bake some proper rye bread this week, so decided to repeat the "Nobleman's" rye following Rus Brot's recipe https://youtu.be/1Vwf3TzPTYU (sorry, video in Russian)

Here is my formula using a mix of whole and light rye flour instead of medium, due to availability: https://fgbc.dk/1i8m

Used a different mix of seeds this time (no pumpkin seeds, very little sunflower seeds, added black sesame and poppy seeds instead). Also didn't top the loafs with seeds on the outside - last time they didn't stick very well and cutting every slice produced a big mess on the table.

The pre-dough never seemed to "fall" like it should when it's ready, even though I gave it 6 hours instead of recommended 4-5 hours. I couldn't really wait longer if I didn't want to bake at 1 am. It increased in size a lot and was very spongy though, so I went ahead and there weren't any issues later.

Tried baking first ten minutes at 260C with the convection on - and it did make a nice crust and loaves didn't burst on top, but when the fan is running the oven has a serious hot spot on one side in the back, and it darkened one of the loaves too much there, and I think reduced the oven spring on that end of the bread (see far end of the left loaf). And the other bread burst on the side a little bit, must be from my handling of the loaves when transferring onto the peel. Need a better system to prove them, since the brotforms are not ideal for this type of dough (or I should try lining them with towels perhaps) and I was using a rectangular pyrex dish with a couche, and getting the dough out was a bit tricky.

Taste is great! I think I prefer the original seed mix (having large pumpkin seeds is nice in particular both visually and texturally), but nothing wrong with this one either. The bread is very flavourful anyway (and would be even without the seeds I guess!).

Comments

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I love that crumb and its color.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thank you Dave! Wish you could eat rye bread, sorry you can only look at it.

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Ilya, that slice of bread looks amazing!  I have never tried a high rye bread, but every one of these bakes of yours is making me want to try one sooner rather than later.  

I’ll need to see what kind of rye flours I have available locally.  Might have to order some.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thank you! If you like the rye flavour, go for it!

Easiest would be to use a formula that requires whole grain rye, then you won't have to deal with troubles of matching different grades of rye flour across countries or producers (I was lucky with this that I found the right ratio of light and whole rye to replicate Russian medium rye with good results). Whole rye is also easier to handle than light rye for example - the one time I did a bake with all light rye it was incredibly sticky until it came together (not to say whole rye dough is not sticky - it certainly is, but somehow it comes together quicker and easier). Maintaining warm temperature is very important for rye dough fermentation.

Here is a good looking easy recipe (I haven't actually tried it, but looks perfect to start): https://youtu.be/r4cnJWtg_h4 (switch on the English subtitles) 60% whole rye : 40% whole wheat, no scald, easy scheduling with a long old dough fermentation and then simple pre-dough and final dough process without a scald, and no unusual ingredients, and baked in a tin - all good starting points :)

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Thank you for the tip!  I was going to ask you for a minimum amount of rye to get a good flavor from it.  Will take a look at this recipe.  I have the whole grain rye that I use for my starter, so I should be good there.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Perfect, then you have all you need! Hope the instructions are clear, let me know if I can help with any translation.

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

How critical are the temps?  Does it impact fermentation time or bread flavor?  

About the max I can get with my current proofing box is 28 C.  Will have to look at options for the 30+ C temps.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

28 is great, and for the final proof you can construct something like the steam bath setup he shows in the video, that's what I do as well. I'm sure it'll be fine at 28C too though, just will take a little longer and will make the bread a bit more sour.

Basically, it's important to keep it a few degrees warmer than "room temperature" at all times (I'd say at least 27C maybe), and following his precise guidelines will probably give the best result, but slight deviations are fine.

justkeepswimming's picture
justkeepswimming

Maybe look for rye berries too? I have had some success milling rye. So far have only tried a couple of 50% rye bakes, but they were very tasty. 

headupinclouds's picture
headupinclouds

You are turning out some great rye loaves.  I usually associate rye with dense volkornbrot slices, which I do like, but it is great to see some of these springier examples.

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thank you!

I was surprised too just how open this crumb is - more open than in my previous bake of the same bread (https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/67013/noblemans-bread-80-rye-seeds). Notably, the oven spring appears to be much higher this time too, and that could be due to better baking conditions: I switched to baking on semolina instead of baking paper (or it's just appearance, due to different final proofing setup and therefore slightly different shape).

However after all I am not sure why that happened, but also this time for the 20% wheat portion I used extra strong bread flour (13.3% protein), and I think last time it was regular bread flour (12.3%). Also, since that bake I have got the proper red rye malt to use in the scald, instead of crystal rye malt I used last time.

And perhaps the most important variable, is I now have a different whole rye flour (Dove's farm instead of my usual local Mungoswells), and it's very different - the bran seems to be milled fine in this new one, while it's really not broken up much in the old flour (Dove's farm is stone-ground, Mungoswells is roller-milled, but with fewer stages than usual). So even just when using it for the starter it feels different, so no surprise it can change the bread.

Finally, using smaller seeds could be a factor to consider as well...

Benito's picture
Benito

That. crumb is outstanding, I wouldn't have guessed it was 100% rye unless you told me.  You're making me want to try baking an all rye loaf too Ilya, you're really doing well with these bakes, very commendable.

Benny

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thanks Benny! This is 80% rye, just to avoid confusion, and the 20% bread flour probably does make it a touch more open.

But regardless, you definitely should try a high % rye bread Benny, you already have a rye starter and whole rye, so you are good to go. Check out my comment above, I think I found a good recipe for a starting point with 60% whole rye : 40% whole wheat, easy procedure and no need for special unusual ingredients. Rus Brot claims that is the kind of bread that was baked in rural Russia at home (compare and contrast with Italian pane cafone from the semolina CB, by the way!). I think I'll try that one myself for the next rye bake to try something simpler.

Kistida's picture
Kistida

well done on the wonderful bake!

 

 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thank you! :)

gavinc's picture
gavinc

I love the mix of rye flours coupled with a seed mix. A very interesting loaf that looks delicious. The crumb is more open than I would have expected. Nice bake.

Cheers,

Gavin.

 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thanks Gavin - I agree about the crumb, more open than I expected too!

justkeepswimming's picture
justkeepswimming

Wow, what a lovely bake! Both crust and crumb are enviable. I'm just starting to play with rye a bit. So far, I have opted for using a Pullman pan, while I figure out proof times. I need to post my most recent attempt..... 

Mary

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thanks Mary!

Using a pan with rye is much easier, free-form is a bit challenging, especially for the nice look without tears on the crust.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, Ilya,

This is what I use to prove torpedo-shaped rye bread like Borodinsky. Each mold can perfectly fit 500g of dough. First, I line the mold with a piece of soft cardboard to avoid leaving ridge marks on the dough. Then, like Rus, I put a tea towel/linen cloth on it to prove the dough. Easy release, no mess at all. You can also make a mold with half of a PVC pipe if you are handy.

Your loaves have nice crust/color and crumb (now I can see it more clearly on a PC)! I have no doubt that they are delish because it's Rus's recipe!

Yippee

 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thanks a lot Yippee! Very helpful, I do need to find a better solution for proving these loaves.

You should try this recipe, really nice bread.

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

Ilya, you always have such interesting breads, all of which are well baked and a treat to look at.  This bread got me thinking that I would like to try a bread that is essentially a rye flour version of the Hamelman five-grain (i.e., rye as the dominant flour and with a variety of seeds inside).  Do you have a recommendation?  The bread in this blog post or instead another one?

Keep baking and keep posting (and stay safe).

Ted

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Thank you Ted!

This bread would be an excellent choice, it did occur to me that there is a similarity - but it uses medium rye (do you have it? or a mix of whole and white/light rye, like I had to use?), requires a couple less common ingredients (particularly the red rye malt - can be substituted for e.g. crystal rye malt, but it's an inferior option). And maintaining nice warm temperature is also important - do you have a proofer of some sort? And scalding requires to be kept at 65°C for 5 hrs, which an oven should be able to do, but I had to nail down the setting by measuring the temperature with an external thermometer.

If you think the points above might present a challenge, perhaps finding a simpler recipe for some sort of Danish rugbrod would be a good starting point? Foodgeek has one (https://foodgeek.dk/en/danish-rye-bread-recipe/), and also Maurizio has a recipe on theperfectloaf.com.