The Fresh Loaf

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Can you use starter in place of yeast?

PamB's picture
PamB

Can you use starter in place of yeast?

Can I substitute SD starter in place of yeast in this recipe? I have a 25g water/25g flour starter. If a recipe calls for 1 pkg of yeast, how much SD starter do you usually substitute for the yeast?300g of water10g dry active yeast500g of flour10g of salt

yozzause's picture
yozzause

The recipe that you have given has 10g dried yeast which equates to 2% which would be enough to bring the dough to maturity in approximately 2 hours . There is no way that you will get the dough to rise with an "ACTIVE" starter the rate that you have suggested 50g which represents about 10% so if all variables were good it would probably be an 8+hour rise.                           167g of '"ACTIVE" starter which is classic 3:2:1 Sour Dough ratio is usually 4 hour rise. i prefer using 25% these days which would equate to125g starter. Salt is fine @ 10g

Water would be 333g but if you dont have a lot of experience 300 might be easier for you to handle for your first forray into s/d. 

Of course this is based on the presumption that what you refer to as STARTER is in fact a Sour Dough starter and not a concoction of something else. So based on your suggestion it could be a mix now go to bed and recommence in the morning dough, still dependent on the strength of your starter and your environment . Dont know where you are located as no info completed on your Avatar 

regards Derek 

PamB's picture
PamB

Thank you Derek for your thoughts that are helpful. It appears that I would need to use more active starter than I do now. I have 25g flour and 25g water now. That I know how to do, even with being a newbie in SD. One thing I don't quite under are the numbers 3:2:1. Is 167g of started what one always uses to replace yeast in a recipe? For now I will make the recipe as is before attempting to use a SDS in the recipe. It calls for a double in size rise, shape and put in a cold DO and cold oven to bake. I've never done a cold start before so perhaps should see if it works before changing the yeast to SDS.

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Hi Pam, so if you were to use the recipe as first stated the starter can be considered as another ingredient, and addition of prefermented flour, it should contribute to the flavour profile. The dried yeast in that dough will be the driver of the fermentation for the dough!

I have used up the discard S/D starter from the feeding regime in this way often, and it was good on two accounts it saved waste and did give a better taste to rolls that were being produced by students in a class and used in the training restaurant where Bulk Fermentation time was as little as 1 hour,   Good luck and we hope to see some pictures of your success soon. 

Kind regards Derek

PamB's picture
PamB

As long as it was snowing outside today, I finally made my bread that I've been wanting to attempt . However, I did chicken out substituting SDS for yeast and went with what the recipe called for. The finished bread has excellent flavor. The recipe called for putting the formed dough in a cold DO and cold oven, which I did as well as spritz it with water. It also said to bake at 475° for 40 minutes and not to peek or uncover. About 15 minutes into the bake after the oven reached temperature, I didn't feel confident baking at 475° because I've baked at 450° before and that worked fine, but I wanted to follow the recipe as written. Anyway, I turned the over temp down to 450° and am glad I did. The crust is a nice color without removing the lid but the crust is really thick and the bottom crust is way over baked, (almost burnt in a couple places) and also thick. The oven temp is right on so that isn't off as one might think. To help with eliminating a thick and brick hard bottom crust, I had the dough on two pieces of parchment paper and on the shelf below the CO DO I had a pizza stone to help disperse the heat directly away from the bottom of the DO. Still the bottom crust was over done but that could have been from starting out at 475°. I also thought it was a bit dense even though the loaf itself feels light in weight and not heavy.

So, the loaf won't go to waste and I am half happy with it. I guess maybe when the baker who is French translated the recipe to English, something got lost in the translation and I am sure my of the lack of excellence was something I did or didn't do. I think next time I attempt this recipe ( https://www.feuilledechoux.fr/en/french-country-bread-recipe/ ) I will substitute SDS for yeast, adjusting the flour and water to compensate for the starter. I'll also bake at 450° or maybe even 425° I don't mind experimenting and I will master bread baking with SD. My  goal is to replicate Wegman's "Pain de Compagne" bread that I often purchase when grocery shopping. It may take me a lifetime but I will master it. :)

I've attached some photos in case anyone is interested or wants to critique my loaf. They aren't the greatest but will show you the final result of today's adventure. Thank you Derek for your insight before I attempted this adventure.

Best,
Pam

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Hi Pam that looks pretty good, If Im putting my loaf in a cold clay baker  i tend to have my oven as hot as it will go for the first 10 minutes as the cold vessel will absorb a lot of that heat i then turn it back to 220C  and remove the lid after 15 minutes.

Where you say you will use yeast and omit the SDS and adjust the omission why not leave the SDS in it will help the flavour even if its not contributing a great deal to the lift. It is only 10% of the recipe anyway!

Was the pizza stone hot when yo put the dutch oven in and on it, Chances are its actually held the heat rather than disperse it. 

Definitely no Snow  forecast here in Perth, but i would be happy with a little rain.

PamB's picture
PamB

Hi yozzause and thank you. When I did my loaf, I put it inside a cold DO inside a cold oven with a cold pizza stone.. The pizza stone was on the shelf below the DO, not on the same shelf. I was hoping it would act as a shield against the heat for the bottom of the DO. The DO on the shelf above is as high as it can be without the top of it touching the top of the oven. I'm thinking next time to start out at 450°F/232°C and once the oven gets to temp, turn it down to 425°F/218°C. Maybe this will prevent the bottom from over baking.