25% wholemeal boule
Slowly finding my way with my sourdough bakes since I started in September. This one I was quite satisfied with the rise, though no real ear - it's 675g white canadian flour, 125g local (UK midlands) wholemeal, 50g wholemeal rye, 50 g wholemeal spelt. 72% hydration.
I've been tweaking this recipe since I started - but as you can see here the crumb tends to be a little gummy (due to the rye?) unless I keep it in for longer than 40 mins and keep the heat on max after uncovering dutch oven
This time I only cold-proofed for 7 hrs instead of my usual 9 -12. Got fed up of splitting into 2 loaves , as my oven is too small to fit 2 dutch ovens/casseroles- so I made 1 big 1kg in my big staub casserole.
Next time maybe I'll finally try without rye to fix that gumminess - but I love the rustic flavour it gives. The short 7 hr cold proof doesn't seem to have done any harm - it's less noticeably sour than with a longer proof, but my famly prefers it like that.
Fifty grams of rye in a +1500g loaf isn’t enough to cause gumminess but under baking can. You didn’t mention the baking temperature you used for this bake. It wouldn’t surprise me for a loaf this large to need 50 minutes or more if the temperature is around 400F for a full bake. The lightness of the crust color also begs for more time in the oven.
How much salt did you use? I didn’t see mention of it.
Nice job with with the shaping.
Paul
Hi Paul ok,so it's not the rye - the bake was 20 mins covered 492f (250c) then 23 mins uncovered 464f (240c) . That's starting as high as my oven will go. And I used 20g salt.
However , despite the slight gumminess, the crust feels fine - crunchy but not hard - and when toasted the crumb comes out perfect.
I tried 50 mins once (split into 2 smaller loaves) and it coloured nicer but the crust was a bit too hard for my kids.
There seems to be a fine line between getting it slightly undercooked and getting it a bit too dry and hard for my family's liking- perhaps higher hydration would help this, or an autolyse? Also, with the flours I'm using there seems to be a tendency for it to come out pale -I don't think it's quite as undercooked as it looks.
What do you think about keeping the temperature high - 492f - for the last 20 minutes, after the lid has come off?
Got a bit more colour with my next one - think I needed to pre-heat the oven for longer to get the temp up
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Salt fish can I ask what method you use? Knead or no knead? Do you retard in the fridge? Do you use a sponge or just add in the starter and go? Thanks.
Yes, no sponge - I add starter (fed twice a day for a few days) to the warm water, then add all flour, mix and leave for 30 minutes - then add salt , mix again and use stretch and fold every 30 mins over about 3hrs - then I preshape, rest 30 mins, shape and then cold proof in fridge for 7-8 hrs.
So no actual kneading? This is amazing. I have tried these recipes and they always fail miserably for me. I end up making a loaf that is just fit to be used as a doorstop. Cant even work out if they are under proved or over proved, probably the former, but no rise whatsoever, a few cavernous holes, a pale colour and a dense gummy texture ?.
sorry to hear that Missmoneypenny - I'm quite new to this myself so not the best person to advise you - but as you can see in my post my first attempts were a little pale and gummy due to not high enough temperature
although it's not kneaded, it is worked quite a bit :- 2 mixes - one before the salt and one after, and usually about 5 stretch and folds before shaping , resting then reshaping.
If you are not getting a good rise , usually the first thing to check is - is your starter active enough? (that's why I start feeding at least a few days before baking) and are you using something to hold in the steam in first half of baking (eg iron casserole, dutch oven) and preheating the oven and casserole pot high enough and long enough?
Also - I've found it's easy to overproof in the fridge, (despite many online recipes saying cold-proof for 12hrs+) - I find I get a good rise more consistently if I limit the fridge cold-proof to 8 hrs max.
Thank you salt fish. I think all the above apply ie I am already doing them. I also knead for 5 minutes, rest for 10, knead for another 5 minutes and add salt at the second kneading ( that’s when I use my usual River Cottage method which works well for me- it’s the non knead methods which I totally fail at). I was interested to see you are also in the U.K. and use similar flour to me: I use Waitrose’s Canadian strong white, or a generic supermarket strong white and I usually get better results with the Canadian. And yet you succeed with a no knead method - I’m still baffled!
I will agree with you that it is possible to overprove in the fridge, I have done that.
This is the recipe I have adapted, from shipton mill website: marys 1 kg loaf
The main changes I made to that recipe are: shorter fridge proof as mentioned, double the quantities to make a bigger loaf, and left out step 7 - I bake straight from Fridge.
I'm using Sainsbury's Canadian strong white - but often only half Sainsbury's Canadian mixed with half local strong white flour plus the wholemeal and rye.
I noticed on one of your old posts you used quite a lot of wholemeal spelt; I've found that it's harder to get a good rise with a high spelt content, so now I avoid using more than just a little (50g out of 900g total flour) - could this be part of the problem?
Same is also true for Rye - I find that a little rye and spelt really adds to the flavour but going higher makes the whole process a lot more tricky - my local grocery/baker's sells nice strong white and wholemeal flour direct from an Oxfordshire mill, they seem to produce more consistent results than relying on supermarket flours alone, even if they are quality organic ones...
Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. It is very interesting. I have already picked up on the way Mary does the final shape, which I’ve always done in a slightly haphazard way- I’m going to copy the technique. The salt content is also higher, about double what I use. This reportedly reduces the risk of overproving as it slows the yeasts and bacteria down. I will try increasing salt content. I’ll also dial down the rye/ spelt which I sometimes use up to 20% of in a recipe. Thank you again.
Good luck! Hope those changes make the difference!