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Sourdough Bread - Improved... I think

Fost9508's picture
Fost9508

Sourdough Bread - Improved... I think

Okay, so after a number of issues I think I made some progress based on feedback from these forums so appreciate that.

I have been trying to make the same recipe over and over 

330 grams bread flour

110 grams stone ground whole wheat

295 grams water

88 grams levain 100% hydration

10 grams salt

so for this round I used rye flour and stone ground flour for my starter.  I did change out my AP flour for bread flour.

 

i fermented for around 7 hours, starter doubled

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Bulk fermented for around 7 hours.  I would say dough increased in size 25-50%.  I did three stretch and folds and then let proof for around 16 hours.  I think I got a better crumb than the last few loaves, but would like to hear from people.  The dough is slightly glossy and spongy.  Maybe that’s just how it is with sourdough, but I feel like it shouldn’t be.  So would appreciate any thoughts there.

thanks...

 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

First,  looks fine to me.  Second, my only comment is you are doing exactly what you should be doing -  taking one recipe, making it over and over  ( with slight changes and making notes ) till you get what you like in terms of a finished product.  With all the variations in flour and sourdough starters and room temperatures , it is hard to expect that someone else's recipe and process will be the best for you. 

Benito's picture
Benito

You are doing exactly what you should, I agree with Barry.  I did the same initially sticking with one recipe and doing it over and over until I got what seemed like a good result.

In terms of your crumb, I’d say it is a bit underfermented.  The crumb is somewhat dense and along with the large tunnels suggest that you need to bulk ferment longer.  How did your dough look at the end of bulk fermentation when you went to shape?  Was it domed at the edges where it met the bowl?  Where there fermentation bubbles on top and at the edges?  Did it have a nice jiggle when you gently shook the bowl?  If not, then you should let bulk fermentation go longer.

What temperature are you doing bulk fermentation at?  It is likely fairly cool, you could try to find a warmer spot so that bulk can go along a bit faster.  I like to bulk around 80-82ºF.

Your final proof for 16 hours, I assume that was a cold retard done in the fridge.

Benny

Fost9508's picture
Fost9508

The dough felt better than it had previously.  It’s hard for me to tell if it was domed.  I had it in a square container to check rise so when I would do a stretch and fold i felt weird about pushing the dough back into the corners to make it level so yes the dough was domed, but that could be from the folding.  Not a lot of big bubbles on the surface.  Didn’t seem too jiggly.  The thing is that I bulk fermented at 82F.  There have been some suggestions to have a different starter to flour ratio 1/5/5 which might help.  I could go longer in the bulk, but 7 -8 hours at 82 seems like a long time.

thanks,

Benito's picture
Benito

Of course we should be watching the dough and not the clock, I’d say though that for 82ºF and 7 hours of bulk fermentation that indicates that your starter isn’t active enough or that you used your levain far before peak.  You’re right 7 hours at 82ºF for the ratio of levain used for your dough it should have been well fermented if not even over fermented.

I think you will need to look at your starter maintenance and ensuring that your levain is at peak or past peak when used.

Fost9508's picture
Fost9508

So, it seems like the starter just seems weak, but I have changed the recipe to rye and stone ground whole wheat and feel like I am doing the correct things with the starter.  I don't feed daily since I don't bake daily but I try to feed for a day or two before using.  Here is the starter before I mixed it into the dough.  The top of the blue tape is where the levain began.  

 

Benito's picture
Benito

Yes your lEvian looks like it doubled, but was it done rising?  Hard to tell from the photo, but try to wait until the domed top has flattened and you see signs of it falling with a bit of streaking down the sides of the bottle.  It is quite possible that it wasn’t at peak yet.

If you think your starter is weak, the consider leaving it out on the counter for several days giving it feeds of dark rye.  That should turbocharge it and get it much more active.  After each feed wait until it really has peaked and just starting to fall before feeding it again.  Put it in the fridge if you need to for convenience, like the need for sleep.  After several days of feedings like this you should find your starter is more robust.

The size of the feed will be dictated by the temperature you can keep the starter at and the length of time you wish it to ferment before needing to feed it again.