The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Overproofed bread

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

Overproofed bread

I really need help. I posted the other day, and someone suggested my starter was too acidic and it was breaking down the gluten bonds too quickly, and this was a problem with the feeding schedule. Okay, so I spent about 4 days feeding my starter regularly every 12 hours, it became really nice and yeasty. It’s pure white flour so I know that it doesn’t rise as much but it was bubbly and smelled great. Last night, used it in a recipe I have made loads of times. A low hydration sourdough (60%), 10% starter, only white bread flour (12% protein). But it overproofed again. I did three sets of stretch and folds every 30 mins, left it on the counter to rise for two hours and then popped it in the fridge...and it is now way over proofed, at least when I do the finger poke test it just stays indented. I am pretty upset because I’m not sure what’s going wrong. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

It will probably help if you would photograph and document a bake. The more information we get the better we can offer help. If you do post, be detailed. 

Your problem doesn’t sound typical. 

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

Sorry, this is really all my sourdough bread (the last several bakes) at this stage, and I am currently in a place without my starter so I can't document a new one for some time.

EDIT:

I am unsure what the issue is, because my previous three or four loaves have been overproofed disasters. At that stage, I was keeping my starter in the fridge and feeding it once a week, taking it out and feeding it beforehand. Someone told me that maybe my starter was too acidic, so that is why I took it out to feed for near a week. I am unsure if it is still too acidic or not, and my starters have never ever been the types to rise a lot because I just use white bread flour, no whole wheat, no rye. My bread over the summer was great, and it was very warm then and even more humid. Never had an overproofing issue then.

Peacester's picture
Peacester

Can you give us some more info? Like how long was it in the fridge. What type of climate do you live in?

and to confirm you are doing something like the following

500g Flour

300g Water

50g Starter

8-15g Salt

Then you mixed the ingredients. Then you performed a stretch and fold every 30 minutes for a total of 3 times. Bulk fermented (I'm assuming on the counter) for 2 hours. Put it in the fridge for ___ Hours/Minutes. Then poked and noticed it was over-fermented.

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

It was in the fridge between 12 and 14 hours (sorry, it was awhile ago now so I forget). I live in a humid climate, but it has been cold lately and thus it is cold and humid in my flat. 

My recipe is the following:

600 g white bread flour (about 12% protein content)

400 g water

60 g starter

12 g salt

Peacester's picture
Peacester

I have a few thoughts about this from my experience. 

If the recipe and fermentation period has stayed the same. The only two things that have changed is your climate and your starter.

 

First lets talk about the starter cause I'm more leaning on this. If your starter is relatively new it can go through a somewhat growth spurt and become strong (causing those double to triple rises). This isn't a bad thing but can throw off your recipe. You can try 1 of 2 things. Cut your fermentation period by a few hours or only put in 50g of starter.

 

The other thing it could be is the excess humidity which could be causing the dough to ferment faster before being put in the fridge. I would solve this but doing one of the above methods but you could also try cutting back on some hydration but I would suspect this would have little effect on the finished product.

 

If you like the 12-14 hour bulk fermentation I would lower the mount of starter used. Otherwise if you have no time obligations I would cut the fermentation by 2 hours then adjust by 30 minutes either way if needed, this way you don't have to worry about adjusting your recipe to the season.

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

I attempted to do this with 1% sourdough starter in the dough and it still overproofed. I did the same number of stretch and folds too so I don’t know if I am overworking the dough or if the starter is really messed up somehow.

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

I should also point out that I've had the starter since about May. It was good over the summer, very successful. I may cut back the hydration...I was using slightly more water though. 

Benito's picture
Benito

A couple of things, the finger poke test isn’t accurate if the dough was in cold retard in the fridge, it is more likely accurate if the final proof was done at a room temperature or warmer temperature.  I never bother with the finger poke on cold dough,

Have you actually checked on the temperature of your fridge?  Place a glass of cold water on the shelf in the fridge where you will place your dough for cold retard.  If the temperature is 5ºC or greater, that isn’t quite cold enough to stop fermentation and yes your dough will ferment and can overproof.  I would check our fridge temperature, I keep my fridge at a cold 2ºC to ensure that I don’t overproof in cold retard.

Photos of your baked bread including crumb photos would be very helpful to assist you in figuring out if things are actually overproofed or not.

Benny

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

I don’t have a thermometer to check, but we keep the fridge at the coldest setting. And I never had issue with the fridge over the summer when it was hotter in my flat. Unfortunately I do not have pictures, and I am not currently in my flat for the next 3 weeks.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Good evening, Admiral. 

 I too am having a problem with my retarded doughs continuing to ferment while in the refrigerator, A few weeks ago I did do a temperature reading on the shelf I retard my doughs. Using air temperature (not in a glass of water) I found the temperature to be 42F, Too warm to sloe development to a none. I raised the thermostat, two positions, and retested. I now had achieved 35F. I thought the problem was solved. Alas, my dough is still over fermenting in the refrigerator. Time to redo the temperature test in a glass of water this time. I recommend you also get yourself an analog refrigerator thermometer and verify your retardation temperature. It is a very frustrating problem, the only way to solve it will ultimately be by regulating the temperature to where almost all fermentation is halted. Good luck. P.S. guessing at the temperature will not solve your problem. 

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

I understand temperature has an impact, but there isn’t much I can do about it anyway. It is at its coldest. I cannot buy a new fridge, and it is an exceptionally small fridge as I have a tiny kitchen, so there isn’t anywhere else in the fridge I can put it outside of the shelf. And it clearly was able to retard the dough over the summer when I was making very successful loaves (that were underproofed even!) 

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

That being the case, I would look into altering the formula for a room temperature ferment. As for the refrigerator presumably holding temperature a few months ago, Well it is very possible that the refrigerator has developed an issue. Weak compressor, low on refrigerant, door seal issue, to name just three. My advice is to eliminate the most likely cause (retard temperature) before looking for another solution. You may have no choice in replacing the appliance if it is in fact no longer holding temperature. Go to the hardware store and pick up a refrigerator thermometer, for a few bucks. Always good to have and may save you from an expensive loss in fresh foods. Good luck, I will let you know how my temperature test goes tomorrow. 

P.S. The very fact that you need to keep the thermostat at full-on, is a telling sign the refrigerator is struggling to cool. Does the compressor ever go off? I doubt it does. Your wasting electricity too. If this is a rental unit, knowing the temperature will give you cause to demand a new appliance from the owner.

Best.

 Will F.

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

I really do not think it’s the temperature. My bread with 1% starter overproofed in the fridge. And I do not live in a place where I have access to a hardware store that carries thermometers. The closest one to me is extremely small and has limited stock these days (by small I mean basically a one room shop, as I live in Europe and things are very small there). I also can’t replace the fridge, this is a rental and unless the fridge just breaks outright then it won’t get replaced. It’s also basically built into my counter so I am unsure how to even take it out because the plug is somewhere behind it.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

My last thought on this issue. You start with 1% mother. However, the reason your starter works is that the little buggers are multiplying as they consume the sugars. I was thinking of cutting my IDY by 25-50% Then it occurred to me that, by the time the room temperature bulk ferment is finally complete, the yeast would have multiplied to a point where the dough could still overproof in retardation. 

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

Are you saying that even with a dough that has 1% starter, by the time it sits on the counter (say, 2-3 hours) it could still overproof? That seems to be a starter issue. Even if I did a bulk ferment on the counter, which many people do, a dough with 1% starter shouldn't overproof if the starter was healthy. My apartment gets very cold because we do not have central heating, like just about 15 degrees celsius (59 F I think) which I would have thought would be okay to proof at normally.

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

It’s a mini fridge. I can’t do much about it. It was always at the maximum cold when I moved in.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Will, your post got me to thinking.

See THIS LINK.

AdmiralHip's picture
AdmiralHip

As for being overproofed, the bread has that thick dense line at the bottom where the gluten matrix collapsed, and was light in colour out of the oven. 

Another Girl's picture
Another Girl

In the original post, AdmiralHip said, "It’s pure white flour so I know that it doesn’t rise as much but it was bubbly and smelled great." I'm admittedly not well-experienced with white starters, but I've always been under the impression that healthy white starters double and even triple very reliably. 

Admiral, I'm thinking the advice you initially received was probably on target but that your "rescue regimen" of twice daily feedings needed to continue for more than four days. Consider: A brand new starter that is bubbly and fresh smelling but does not double reliably would not typically be considered ready for baking. You would probably be advised to keep doing what you were doing until the starter begins to double consistently. 

Perhaps you could also try changing up your fermentation process. For example, have you tried omitting (or reducing) the 2 hours at room temp and instead going straight to the fridge? Or skipping the cold retard and baking right after a short proof at room temp? There are so many variables that affect us all as bakers. For example, my Ken Forkish doughs always over-ferment in the fridge if I follow the instructions as written. I have learned to shorten the bulk phase or skip the cold retard.

I understand your frustration and wish you luck in doping this out.