August 19, 2020 - 4:11pm
pH meters and starter acidity
I’m thinking about purchasing a pH meter. I’ve long wondered about how acidic my starter is especially it goes unfed for a few weeks in the fridge. I’m also interested in how acidic my bread dough proof to as well.
I’m wondering if anyone here has a pH meter that they use to measure the pH of their starter that they might recommend. Is it easy to use, does it require calibration? Is it easy to clean after use?
Benny
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As I’m researching this idea, I’m starting to think that just buying some litmus paper would be the easiest thing to do.
About 10 bucks at Wal-Mart. Should be good enough.
Yes that would be logical. Believe it or not there aren’t any Walmart in downtown Toronto, so I’ll probably add some litmus paper to my next Amazon order. Thanks Phaz.
I haven’t found them (cheap models) reliable or very useful. Litmus paper - pretty much the same.
I think to get something accurate and reliable you’ll need to spend big bucks. Check with Doc.
But if you try litmus paper make sure you buy the narrow range.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LY1KIWY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
For real scientific work, useless, for this, overkill. Odds are good it'll be close enough for government work as we say.
I've used them in wine-making. They are easy to use, but require frequent calibration with appropriate solutions. The probe only lasts a couple of years. Litmus paper would be better, though less accurate.
So that you won't feel so bad to throw it away when it stops working. I once bought a pricey one, and it stopped working within a year. I was so mad. ???
I think I’ll go for some litmus paper with a limited range, thanks for all the comments.
I have one that I use for measering the water in my fish tanks. I think it is not easy to clean when used in a stater.
Thanks dbazuin, I think I’ll just get some litmus paper, I think it will be sufficient.
I have seen many suggestions to use litmus paper rather than a ph meter. I think you will find that litmus paper does not give you the range you are interested in. ph paper, as opposed to litmus paper, works in ranges on the ph scale. Litmus works at telling you which side of '7' (neutral) your product is. There are reasonably reliable instruments available, without breaking the bank. I have been retired for a couple of years, and, for the life of me can't remember the name of the company I was going to recommend
Hi Lawrence, if you remember what instrument you were thinking of that wouldn’t break the bank, I’d love to know!
I am in the wilds of northern lower Michigan, now. When we get home, I'll rumage through my old archives to see if I can find the company name
Ben- I just remembered the company name: Omega Engineering. I have bee away from such for a couple of years, so they may be out of business. I remember them selling some functional units that were relatively inexpensive.
Thanks for coming back and getting me the name, that’s great, I’ll look them up.
Benny
I got my pH meter from Amazon. I just tested our tap water and the pH is as expected very close to neutral 7.02.
I can now monitor how acidic my starter gets the longer after feeding it is. I’ve wanted to know how much of an acid load I am transferring to my levains if the starter hasn’t been recently fed. What I’ve recently been doing is feeding my starter on Monday night or Tuesday morning. Then I’ll build a levain for baguettes Tuesday night and then build a levain on Thursday night again.
So today, now 5-6 days after the last feeding my starter is about pH 3.5. I’m going to do a reading immediately after feeding next time and then again when the starter has peaked before going back in the fridge.
I am planning to delve a bit deeper into the world of pH once I get my pH meter setup sorted out (I've had a few false starts). You really need a spear tip or surface probe for dough; the bulb type gets bunged up very quickly and is difficult to clean. Unfortunately a meter with the right tip does not come cheap. I narrowed it down to the Extech ph100 (surface probe) or the Hanna HL-981038 (spear tip) and then bought something else. (It's a long story!).
Whatever you buy, expect to calibrate it frequently.
There's an amateur baker on Instagram with the handle Balazlo and he is doing all his process step changes based on pH - not time, not volume increase, so very interesting and I will investigate further once I have confidence in my measurements.
Meanwhile, here's a tempter, a screenshot from Francisco Magoya's fermentology lecture (available on YouTube):
Lance
Hey Lance that’s interesting stuff, thanks for sharing it with me. I’d never even thought that one might want to just use pH to make process decisions during bulk fermentation. My interest really was to learn more about my starter and how much acid really develops in my starter while in the fridge at 2ºC for the week between feedings.
I didn’t want to spend that much on a pH meter with a probe tip so I didn’t buy that type. Yes the type I have has one of those small spheres and will be challenging to clean. I’ll be quite interested to hear what your findings are as you start using your pH meter when you get it.
I do find it interesting that the starter in the example above drops to the maximum acidity of 3.4 (which is what mine is today about 5-6 d after feeding) and doesn’t go any lover. The common thought is that the longer it sits unfed the greater the acid load. But my understanding of the LAB is that as the pH drops really low they become less active and eventually their activity stalls. This seems to fit with the information above that shows the pH never falling below 3.4. I’ll start checking my starter to record the pH changes from just before feeding, just after feeding and peak and points in between if I can.
Since I plan to build a levain for baguettes I’ve just now fed my starter. It still had that pH of 3.4 prior to feeding. I discarded a small amount to leave me with 5 g and fed it 20 g water 5 g rye and 15 g red fife. After feeding the starter had a pH of 5.1. I’ll check the pH when it is at peak and then daily to see how it evolves and when its peak lowest pH is reached.
Keep us posted,Benny. I'll report some results when I'm up and running. You seem to be mirroring Magoya at the moment!
Are you going to do Bulk start and end?
Lance
Definitely I will keep this post updated, nice to see someone else with similar interests Lance! I'll look forward to your results as well. Yes I will also post pH, assuming I remember to do the measurements when I build a levain and when levain is at its peak. Also if possible with my type of meter which doesn't have a pointed probe, the pH of the dough in bulk and end of bulk. Actually it would be easier for me to take the pH of the aliquot jar dough which should closely reflect the main dough pH that way if I destroy the structure of it, it won't matter as much.
Without a spear tip, you can use "the old fashioned way" for thick doughs. I've used it and it works - I used half measures and mixed up in a ziploc bag, so you can squish by hand. It is a bit tedious though, I must admit.
Lance
Yeah that sounds a bit more tedious than I want to deal with. I'll do my best to measure the pH using my meter and the dough in the aliquot jar. I also don't want to have to buy distilled water and NaOH just to do this.
Benny
Update, unfortunately I was late to get home to measure the pH of the starter at peak, it had already fallen somewhat. The pH at this point was 4.4. I shall make a levain tonight and check the pH of that and the starter at that point, the starter is in the fridge now. Then I’ll check the levain’s pH in the morning and so on.
6 hours later having spent the whole time in a 2*C fridge my starter’s pH has dropped to 3.9. Prior to refrigeration the pH was 4.4. Now it would have taken some time to chill from room temperature to 2ºC but I suspect that LAB are still active at 2ºC. We will see that by tomorrow or later when I check the pH again. If the LAB isn’t active at 2ºC then the pH should stop falling, but I suspect it won’t take long even at 2ºC for it to reach 3.4 pH again.
I just built a levain using the starter at 3.9 pH. The levain was built 1:4:4 with 10% rye and 90% AP flour, its pH was 5.7. Our tap water has a pH of 7.4.
They can drop the pH too.
Thanks Mini. Proportionally though, would you say that the LAB contribute far more to the acid production than the yeast? Any idea what proportion the yeast would contribute?
Starter now 24 hour past peak and @ 2ºC fridge pH stable at 3.9.
Levain made with 10% rye and rest AP flour at mix pH was 5.7 now at peak 3.99.
AP flour baguette dough pH after mix with levain above pH 6.23.
Fascinating, hope you keep sharing the results. As a scientist, I really appreciate the info with precise measurements!
Just wanted to mention, probably you know this already, but the tip of the pH meters is made of very thin glass and breaks easily, you have to be really careful with it. Also, does it come with calibrating solutions and a storage solution? These are finicky instruments, need love and care.
I know that our water here in Toronto is normally pH of 7.4, same as human blood, so I use water to calibrate for now. Yes I assumed that the glass tip was quite fragile so I have been careful with it, I also do not want to contaminate my starter, levain or dough with chemicals or glass from within the pH meter.
Single pH is not really calibration, you need multiple points... But if it accepts any pH as calibration, you can probably use some standard commercial vinegar solution for the acidic side, at least. Not sure what could be good for the alkaline direction.
In the lab we also don't want contamination of our reagents with the storage solution, but just carefully and thoroughly rinsing in (distilled, in that case) water is enough.
Good idea, I will use a white vinegar that I have and use that to ensure repeatability of the results for the low pH and continue to use tap water for neutral. If the pH of those start to veer at least I'll know that the calibration gradually drifting off.
For the purposes of what I am looking at I don’t think I need quite the precision that you would want in a lab.
I will use our tap water pH 7.4
White vinegar pH 2.0
These will be what I will check my pH meter with regularly, if it starts to vary from these values then I will calibrate. My partner works with water treatment and tells me our tap water typically measures pH of 7.4 so I’m happy enough with that.
Yeah that sounds OK for your purposes! And you are only interested in the acidic side anyway. From your measurements so far the differences are actually quite striking, so you don't really need high precision.
I have seen lab pH meters be wrong by a whole unit of the scale when not calibrated for a while, btw.
Another pH reading, this one is the baguette dough at the end of bulk fermentation after 20% rise as measured by the aliquot jar, the pH was down from 6.23 to 4.1.
Nice data, Benny! BTW, if you ever want to calibrate more accurately, you can buy the little packets of buffer powder off Ebay or Amazon for not much money. You just make them up to 250ml with distilled or deionized water, which you can buy at the supermarket or car accessory shop in the UK.
Which meter have you got - the yellow one with 2 buttons?
Lance
Yes Lance it is the yellow one with two buttons. I’m quite surprised at the data as well. I’ll keep collecting it and reporting it. I realize that this probably isn’t the most accurate pH meter, but if it is off, it should theoretically be off in the same direction and amount generally speaking so the pH readings should be generalizable using repeated measurements with the same meter.
Anyhow, it has been interesting so far.
Actually I think that model is surprisingly good, especially for the money - I've got one too.
The single button version (older but still sold) is rubbish because you can only do one point calibration.
My starter now 48 hours after peak has a pH of 3.8, so the microbes are still active and producing acids @ 2ºC since it was 3.9 yesterday 24 hours ago. There is no appreciable rise in the starter during this time of course.
My baguette dough now in cold retard has a pH of 3.97, this is down from 4.1 at the end of bulk.
1DEE0C8E-5984-48AE-AE15-33F75C6E4AA8.jpeg
Baguette dough at final shaping, measured using the aliquot jar, pH 3.76.
Benny, at first look, I think your results are pretty similar to Balazlo's, maybe 0.2 different - I think he is baking at 3.8.
Lance
That’s very cool that my results so far are so similar to Balazio’s, but I’m sure his pH meters are much more accurate than mine. I will continue to collect data over time and as I bake various things. My initial intent was just to figure out my starter and whether or not I was truly transferring an excessive acid load to my levain and then bread. But given how fast the pH drops I’m not sure that is actually a thing that happens.
I just finished bulk fermentation on another dough. This will be a sundried tomato shallot herbs de Provence sourdough. The starter today was surprisingly still at a pH of 3.8. I wonder how accurate that is because I keep so little starter that there may not have been adequate contact with the important bits of the meter.
When just built the levain today which was all red fife started at 5.32 and when past peak because I slept in a bit and missed peak had a pH of 3.99. At the end of bulk fermentation the dough had a pH of 4.17, this was at a 65% rise. This is a 20% whole red fife dough.
Update on my refrigerated starter, 2ºC, it was last fed Tuesday morning. The pH is now 3.65 so still showing LAB activity, I’m assuming from what I’ve read that the yeast are not active at this temperature so the slowly increasing acid is from the LAB.
The pH meter hasn’t been difficult to use or clean since I keep a 100% hydration starter so easy to rinse off after use.
My unfed starter continues to live in the fridge. Its pH today is 3.67. This is likely within the normal variability of the pH meter that I am using to measure it, so very little change from yesterday. Thanks to Doc Dough, I have learned that the LAB stop multiplying at around a pH of 3.8. They are still metabolically active and thus producing acid. They are sensitive to the pH and still stop producing acid at pH 3.4.
I’ll continue to monitor the pH until I feed my starter again.
I checked the calibration of my pH meter and it is still the same as before. However, interestingly the pH of my starter measured 3.78 which is slightly higher. I think this may be because my pH meter was a bit wet a couple of times when I used it to measure the pH of the starter. I will have to ensure that I don’t introduce pH increasing aliquots of water to the starter in the future.
I fed my starter ⅙ rye and ⅚ red fife. The pH after feeding was 5.32. I’ll check back in the morning near peak and measure the pH again then I’ll be careful not to add any further water while measuring this coming week.
My starter rose to about 3-3.5 x volume and had a pH of 4.62 at peak.
If you tried this with durum wheat. Durum never produces any tang. Can't just be because it's a sweeter grain as surely when fermented it's producing lactic and acetic acid which should give some tangy or sour notes. I wonder if something else is happening rather than just the flavour profile of the grain itself. Perhaps it just can't attain the same acidity.
The next time I build a levain with the Semola Rimacinata I have left I will do the pH measurements. I don’t have much left probably enough for a levain and to make a set of semolina sesame baguettes.
You would think that the LAB, and yeast to some extent, as part of their metabolism would be producing lactic and acetic acids regardless of the type of wheat. Perhaps durum has a higher pH to start with and as such it takes a lot more acid production to be able to taste it.
Hi Benny,
Water, even if not pure will do very little to affect the pH. And so a trace of water is truly inconsequential. You could dilute your starter x10 with pure water and it would probably only shift the pH by a hundredth, if that, depending on the total acid present.
When you remake your starter what really elevates the pH is the flour. Flour has a degree of buffering capacity whereas water has very, very little or with pure it basically has none. Flour can soak up acidity while water tends to enhance it.
Measuring pH is a worthy endeavour but it doesn't reveal the full picture of acidity. It doesn't quantify the total presence of acids which can be quantified by measuring TTA, or TA if your an enologist. TTA will better describe the 'acid load'.
Also pH meters really must be calibrated with buffer solutions for accurate results.
Apologies if my comments here come across as overly critical but I have been in the lab a lot lately, measuring pH, TA, °Brix, SG etc.
Just trying to share what I know...
Michael
No apologies needed, you are much more knowledgeable on this subject so I appreciate your knowledge.
What you’re saying totally makes sense and you’re right, total titratable acid would be a better measure to know, but that is beyond the scope of what I could do with my equipment.
TTA is beyond the call of duty for most bakers, unless you have a dedicated laboratory space. But if we can get useful information out of pH, including decisions on process step change, then that is do-able.
I agree with Michael and Ilya that 2 point calibration is important and that's what I have been doing. BTW I checked the accuracy of the Chinese pH powders vs. some Hach buffer solutions and there was very good agreement.
Lance
So, this is one point? What's the second point, and how do I calibrate it? Using a different powder?
Yippee, you need two buffers; for the yellow pH meter these are pH 6.86 and 4.00 or 4.01. Then you follow this procedure:
· Hold the calibrate button for around 5 seconds.· Display will flash and settle at 6.86 (or close)
· Without switching off, rinse probe tip in water then dip in the 4.00 solution.
· Press the calibrate button for around 5 seconds (it will read 6.86)
· Then quickly press and release the calibrate button again.
· Display will flash and settle at 4.00.
· Job done.
Lance
Starter pH is now 4.1 24 hours past peak and at 2 *C in the fridge.
Benny, I'm finally up and running with my pH meter!
So far I've followed starter and levain pHs and one bulk.ferment. Here's what I've got so far:
Starter/Levains
NB all levains at 80% hydration. All flour 75% BF/25% home milled rye
Bulk
This is where it got interesting, Bulk initial pH was 5.51 (20% levain). After 3hrs at 27C, bulk was what I would call "ready" - volume increase about 30% and a dough golf ball floats. BUT pH had only dropped to 4.97. According to Balazlo's posts, 4.3 is what you want.
So, thinking on the hoof, I split the dough into two and ended bulk on one half. The other half I carried on fermenting until the pH had dropped to 4.3; this took overall 6hrs! I didn't measure volume increase, but it must have been about 100%.
The loaves are baking in the morning, so I will update the thread with results.
Lance
Very interesting Lance, smart to divide the dough and let one half ferment until the pH dropped. It will be very interesting to see how they bake up tomorrow, I’m looking forward to that.
Benny
Ending bulk based on pH somewhat blown out of the water! The shorter bulk, based on 30% rise and a floating dough ball has made a loaf with a much nicer crumb (top loaf). The longer bulk, run to pH 4.3, has a tighter crumb and a slightly tangier flavour.
Note that the loaves are slightly different in weight: the short bulk (on the left) was 870g and the long bulk was 800g. The height of both was the same at 83mm, but the lighter loaf looks better proportioned.
Lance
Very interesting result Lance. What rise did you think the pH based dough bulk fermented to?
I didn't measure it Benny; initially I thought probably about 100%, but thinking about it, it could have been nearer 150%.
I've been in touch with Balazlo and he reckons if going down to pH 4.3, the trick is to handle the dough extremely gently while shaping - Kristen style. So I might try that for a future bake, probably with no preshape - I usually do a fairly tight stitch shaping.
Lance
Wow, that is a huge rise. Yes with that type of rise I’d be using coil folds and the last one would act as the pre-shape. Then I’d do a cinching final shaping, but then again that’s what I usually do. I like Kristen’s methods.
Start pH 6 d after feeding living in the fridge was 3.88. Fed 1:5:5 a mix of ⅕ rye and ⅘ red fife post fed pH was 5.21.
Peak next day after cool room temperature fermentation after rising 3-4x was 4.23. I am getting the sense that my weekly feedings isn’t going to transfer an excess acid load into my levain and resulting bread. But I will keep monitoring. Certainly the microbial activity is robust after 1 week without feeding.
In case you've not seen these relevant videos.
No promises but maybe I'll do this in my wine lab and report back the acidity of my starter.
But there's no room in my house for more gadgets. ??
Dup post
That brings me back to organic chemistry and biochemistry labs in University. I too do not have room for more gear in my home nor do I have a safe place to store such bases needed to do these measurements.
Hi,
I'm a wine maker and have been through many pH meters such as Hanna and Milwaukee. My recommendation would be the Milwaukee with a separate temp probe and pH probe. Works great, and very importantly, there is a good seal around the pH bulb so that the storage solution lasts a very long time. It's in the $120 range. And, as a previous poster pointed out, you do need to do calibrations with a 4.0 and 7.1 solution. Should be done a couple times a year (I've tested this frequency and it works, regardless of advice that says test every x weeks or whatever). Also, you'll need to purchase storage solution. None of this stuff is 'break the bank' per se, but it does add up. If you consider the entertainment and science value of spending the money, I say go for it. After all, given the numbers of hours you spend making baking, then the cost amortized out isn't that much. And, if you are asking pH questions, you're already indicating that you have a serious interest. Compare it to the cost of a lift ticket if you go skiing!
Is that a bulb end pH probe you are using? I think that is one of the problems for bread makers - a bulb end probe is not great for checking the pH of stiff levains and most doughs. You really need a spear tip one like this:
Also, I think you are doing well with your calibration schedule - in a lab, calibration would be done at least daily and perhaps more frequently.
Lance
I'm yet to see a lab which does calibration so frequently! Maybe in chemical labs? Certainly not for biochemistry or molecular biology.
Brewery quality control lab - one of the first jobs of the day: calibrate the pH meter!
Lance
Wow OK! I guess in quality control the responsibility is high, especially for human consumption...
It's like that in every lab. Every day, more often if the previous user did not put his name in the log, or you do not trust his work.
Every lab of what kind?.. We don't keep a log who used a piece of equipment at all, for things like pH meters.
Ilya: you're in academia. Sounds like they are in business.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. We can do whatever we want and the worst thing that can happen is our experiment doesn't work.
(snark deleted. My comment did not live up to TFL's tradition of friendliness.)
;-)
Haha. Well, I don't think research in industry is more reproducible!
But also, I don't think problems with reproducibility are due to badly calibrated pH meters, it's more about design of experiments and biased methods. It's mostly a big issue in more complex studies involving people etc, I think...
I think I brought it upon myself with the self-deprecating comment before, no hard feelings! :)
Having been epa certified, all equipment used gets calibrated in house daily, and any materials used to calibrate get certified by an outside source, which also had to be certified, at least biyearly. I won't even get into the paperwork required. But basically all depends on what you're doing and who you're doing it for.
I should note the above was for water testing in a treatment facility for a company where I set up and ran a qa lab. Would ya believe we did much more extensive testing on paint than our water! Go figure.
Yes, it is a bulb tip. It's what I use in wine making and since I had it around, I thought to give it a try. I've seen a lot of comments regarding the difficulty of cleaning the bulb area after testing. However, I have found if I immediately wash it in a bit of running water the starter falls right off.
I was trying to solve a different, but related problem to this thread. I was concerned that my starter was not as effective as I wanted due to a low pH. From my readings a pH out of normal range for bread can inhibit yeast growth. However, my pH's of starter after 10hrs of being fed was 4.26 which seems ok. Also, my starter passed the drop test and doubled in size. So, I think my issues are not in the viability of the starter.
Hello I am looking to get a pH meter and wonder if you could tell me the Milwaukee model you got Did it come with a probe or do you buy separately Thanks for your help Liz
Liz, I went with THIS Milwaukee PH Meter. Yep, it’s not inexpensive, but I have owned the low cost meter before and decided that for me, I would up my game. The meter comes with 2 probes. One a typical buld type and the other a spear top. The spear tip is outstanding for testing bread and foods because it can be inserted directly into the substance to be metered. No need to dilute the dough in water in order to test. These meters come with storage wells, so thta the tips can be soaked in the proper solution and kept wet. This will greatly expand the service life of the probe. It’s not for everyone but for me it was a good decision.
If you spring for this meter, Milwaukee recommended this MAINTENANCE KIT.
I bought straight from Milwaukee Instruments because some of the Amazon reviews complained about receiving dry probes. Milwaukee ships fresher stock.
In another thread I posted that my starter had recently become very sluggish. In response to this, I made the decision to switch to feedings of rye and after 4 feedings it is rising to 4x volume which I’ve never seen before with my starter fed whole red fife. Interestingly with only a couple of readings so far, I have noticed that the pH is lower with rye than red fife.
When fed whole red fife I would see pH of about 3.6 1 week after last feeding. Immediately after feeding pH would be around 5.2 then at peak after feeding pH around 4.2.
I’ve only measured on two cycles but after feeing rye immediately the pH would be around 4.65 and then at peak 3.6. Has anyone had any experience with pH and feeding of rye? I’m guessing that rye isn’t as good a buffer for the acid compared with red fife.
To test my hypothesis that red fife is a better buffer of acid than rye, which could explain the rye starter having lower pH than red fife starter I just did the following measurements.
Red fife 1:1 water pH 5.9
Rye 1:1 water pH 6.15
Our tap water pH 7.12
White vinegar pH 2.14
I diluted the vinegar 1:3 with tap water pH 2.39
Red fife pH 1:1 with diluted vinegar pH 3.63
Rye pH 1:1 with diluted vinegar pH 4.0
So I was quite wrong that red fife is a better buffer of acid than rye. The red fife starts at a lower pH than rye and the pH falls more than the rye when an equal acid load is added to it.
Edited correct my dyslexia in my hypothesis.
Hello everyone!
It’s been years the Fresh loaf is a reference for any doubt with sourdough, but I just registered to ask for some advice!
Thanks for sharing all your tests and knowledge on PH meters, its calibration and day to day usage. Can’t wait to start my own investigations too! :)
MY QUESTION. I’m in that dealing point of “I get the yellow cheap one only for liquid and then if so I go for a Milwaukee”. But I’ve been checking reviews for the cheap ones and they’re so bad..! -_-! Which brand do you have? Sanyi? Vivosun? Oles? Knowing those are only for liquid and obviously more delicate, are you happy with their performance?
Thanks!
Agnès
Hi Agnes, I did buy the inexpensive yellow pH meter and it has been fine. I’m not 100% confident in the readings it gives me although my last two bakes seem to support the readings. I have a Hanna bread and dough pH meter on order and I’m still waiting to receive it. I am hopeful that it will be useful, accurate and reliable. One thing that the yellow one doesn’t have is automatic temperature compensation, the Hanna model does have this. This is a useful feature because temperature affects the pH reading (it doesn’t actually affect the TTA just how the pH reading turns out). So if you’re doing a cold retard it will read higher than the actual pH is.
Benny
07A473B0-2FFD-4181-A76F-AC94D9D37651.jpeg
I just received after more than a month’s wait. I’ll hopefully get a chance to use it later this week when I bake my next loaf of sourdough. I’ll have to read the manual first though to ensure I’m using it correctly. I am excited to see how this might benefit my bread.
Benny
Hey Benito, I was wondering how is your Hanna HI981038 (for Bread) working? :)
I’ve seen that to get it here in Montreal it should be through GeneqOnline, for around 135CAD. I’m comparing it to the Milwaukee MW102, which has both temperature and ph, which would be around 160CAD…
Aaanyway, happy with the results so far?
Thanks and happy bakes!
Hi Agnes. So far I’m pleased with the performance of the Hanna unit you see above. It is easy to use, easy to clean, easy to calibrate and seems to hold calibration quite well so far. The unit is said to have automatic temperature compensation which I appreciate since my previous unit did not. So far I have nothing bad to say about it, but of course, I haven’t had it for super long yet.
Benny
Hi Benny, I’m new to this forum but have been interested by your comments on pH meters. I have also been falling down this rabbit hole over recent months. I recently purchased the Apera ph60s. Despite careful use, cleaning in proper cleaner, storage in 3M KCL, it became slow to give stable readings and didn’t hold its calibration at all. I tried Hanna instruments protein cleaning solution ( stronger HCL with some pepsin) but without any benefit. After discussions with Apera I am now returning it under warranty and (hopefully) getting my money back.
So, now I’m left wondering whether I try the Hanna ph meter that many seem to favour, or whether I revert to old school methods.
The problem is that it is clear that these are delicate instruments and require special love. I have seen Hanna’s cleaning instructions which suggest it needs cleaning with their special dough cleaner after every use. This cleaner comes in boxes of 25 x 20 ml sachets, which costs £50. So this means that, in addition to the costs of meter, 2 buffer solutions, 3M Kcl for storage, the dough cleaning solution adds a further running cost of £50 for every 25 bakes. This is getting expensive.
Now obviously it’s in Hanna’s interest advise very careful cleaning (and to make money on solutions), but I’d be interested to know how far you and others go to preserve the functioning of your meter. Is it just a quick rinse and occasional calibration, or are people really buying all the recommended solutions and following Hanna’s maintenance regime. Do I really need to clean in dough cleaning solution after each use (which is 2 or 3 times per week for me currently). I wonder what the consensus in this group would be for adequate cleaning of a pH meter..
I don’t really want to spend the money on another meter if it’s going to break after a few weeks, so I’m thinking carefully about this investment. I’d welcome your thought on this and those of other seasoned ph meter users.
Chris
Hi Chris. I was initially calibrating prior to first use each day of making a dough. However, overtime I have found that that Hanna Bread and Dough meter seemed to stay quite well calibrated, now I only calibrate every few uses. I have to admit that I’m not following the recommended cleaning regimen. I will rinse the tip under water, shake it dry and place it back into the storage solution. So far that has been fine, now long term, I cannot guarantee that what I’m doing won’t damage the pH meter. The tip probe on this particular meter is well designed for use with dough and is so easy to keep clean.
Benny
Hi Benny, that’s really helpful. Thank you.
Chris
I am doing about the same as Benny. I rise in lukewarm water, blot dry, and store in storage solution. I have used a generic acid cleaning solution only once. I do not use the special dough cleaning solution. I do not think that the acid clean is necessary unless you notice a problem with readings slowing.
I calibrate in 7.01 and 4.01 buffer every once in a while, not every day. My readings have been consistent with what I expect them to be.
I like using it to help judge the end of bulk fermentation and the end of the final proof. Generally, I end Bulk Fermentation at about pH 4.6, and retard proof in the fridge overnight or longer. At the end of the retarded proof, the pH is about 4.1. This applies to my Tartine-like sourdoughs. Other bakes may be different.
Thanks that really helpful..
I am now the proud owner of the Hanna tester and it works just fine with minimal maintenance.
Best wishes
Chris
Great to hear, I’d be interested to hear what kind of data you collect with it. I’ve slowly accumulating pH data for my bakes and I’m always interested in seeing other bakers’ pH data as well.
Benny
Here are two of my fermentation pH records for the same bread with two different hydration %.
They are based on the basic Artisan Sourdough Bread from Sune Trudslev's (AKA Food Geek) web site.
The records show the pH, dough temperature, time, and fermentation stage. I usually measure temperature and pH after the retarded proof, but in these instances forgot to do that. So I took measurements after the finished bread had cooled as a proxy.
Fermentation pH Record.png
That is great data, essentially what I aim for during fermentation to baking.
I appreciate your comment. I usually aim for a pH of ~4.6 at the end of bulk fermentation and that often results in ~4.1 at the end of the retarded proof.
For the Food Geek recipe used of the basis of this bread, Trudslev recommends a warm bulk ferment until the dough volume increases by 25%. Most of my other doughs go beyond that. In this case, the first dough did increase ~25% by the end of the warm bulk ferment, but with the second dough, I unintentionally went well beyond that.
I misread my markings on the bulk ferment container and, by the time I noticed that, the dough had increased in volume by 60% and the pH was closer to 5.5 than 5.6. I did not, however, see any significant difference in the final dough or bread.
The second batch of bread had a more open crumb and a thinner, less chewy crust, but I attribute that, at least the difference in crust, to the difference in hydration and is what I was aiming for.
I am glad to have found so many like minded individuals on this site.
Happy baking,
Elliot
Hi All
I also purchased the Hanna model HI981038 and I am very pleased with it. It is somewhat difficult to find in the US as it is not shown on the Hanna US website. It is actualy manufactured in Romania.
It can, however, be ordered by contacting Hanna at their offices - 270 George Washington Hwy
Smithfield, RI 02917 Phone: (800) 426-6287 • (401) 765-7500
Fax: (401) 765-7575.
I ordered one on August 18 and received it on August 30, much sooner than I had expected. The price was $99.00 USD plus shipping.
The spear tip is perfect for measuring pH of starter, dough, and even finished bread. It is easy to calibrate, use, and clean. It is a delicate instrument, and you should read and follow the directions for use, care, and maintenance. The Hanna Instruments website also has a lot of available information about their pH testers and pH measurement, in general.
Hi, for those of you who own the Hanna meter, can you explain a little more about the maintenance? For instance, how much of the storage solution you buy at a time and whether you buy the individual calibration sachets? Thanks!
Hi Chelsea, I did buy storage solution and calibration solutions, but bought them from Amazon to save a bit of money. However, so far the storage solution that came with the unit has been enough for now so I haven’t even used any of the extra storage solution. After use I quickly run the tip under a bit of water, dry it and then put the tip back into the rubber guard that came with the unit which I keep with some storage solution in it. So far it is fine. As I have written above, I just calibrate once a month or less so far and each time the unit seems to have kept calibration already.
Benny