The Fresh Loaf

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to sponge or not to sponge

bimfi's picture
bimfi

to sponge or not to sponge

Good afternoon,

I have been making these Filipino rolls, called Pandesals, for about 6 years. I can't remember how I came up with the recipe, other than by trial and error. My current process is to take half of the flour with about two thirds the milk and yeast. I mix it and let it rise for about an hour. Then I add the sugar, flour and the remaining milk and oil. After this is kneaded completely, I let it rise for about an hour to an hour and a half. Then I make up the rolls.

I'm not quite sure I need the first rise (sponge dough). I am thinking about experimenting by making a small batch and adding all of the flour and milk with the remaining ingredients and just let it rise until doubled in size.

I have heard from many that the initial sponge rise adds a bit of flavor to the dough/bread. 

Any thoughts on this method?

Thanks!

Postal Grunt's picture
Postal Grunt

There are a lot of Pandesal recipes available through a Google search and the half dozen or so I read didn't use a sponge. That doesn't mean you can't use a sponge if you want and there are lots of ways to build a sponge.They do help add some flavor in breads. However, with fats from the milk, the use of oil, eggs, and sugar in many Pandesal recipes, a sponge might not get as many results as expected and means some extra work.

Since your recipe is already working for you, you can always take a look at what other bakers are doing in their recipes to see if you can find something worthwhile to borrow to tweak your recipe.

bimfi's picture
bimfi

Thank you for your input. You have confirmed what I have read about sponges not really changing a dough enriched with fats and sugars. I will indeed test out a small batch and see if the texture and taste change significantly. If not, then I may just shave some time off on my baking. I appreciate it!

bimfitwo's picture
bimfitwo

Hey bimfi, this is bimfitwo. I was using the sponge method for years, then realized that the sponge did nothing different to the taste. All it did was take up more time. I have now incorporated the ingredients of the sponge into the whole recipe. It has saved me at least a couple of hours. Thanks!

phaz's picture
phaz

Question. I've been looking for an authentic recipe for these rolls for a good friend for a long time. Tried many but none really hit the mark for her. Would you mind posting the recipe? Love to give them a shot. Thanks!

PS - the "sponge" - it can add flavor, but as this is a sweet type dough, it's a flavor you may not want. Enjoy! 

bimfitwo's picture
bimfitwo

So, I usually sell the products I bake to local friends and acquaintances in my area. I try not to give out the recipes to people around where I live to try to keep down the competition :) . But, as long as you are NOT living close to where I live, I see no problem doing so. I do believe that this recipe comes very close to authentic Philippine Pandesals that I have eaten. If you want the recipe, then you can PM me. If you could let me know where about that you live, that would be nice also. 

Sorry you making this seem so complicated. Thanks!

phaz's picture
phaz

Nothing to worry about. I am in Vermont, and i am not a business, just someone trying to bring back a childhood taste for a good friend who has helped me out in many ways for a long time. I'm also trying to get her daughter off of the brownies i make weekly for her! That's way too much sugar for a 10 year old! Anyway, if your concerns are satisfied, the recipe can be sent via pm, that will keep the eyes limited to yours and mine! Thanks and Enjoy!

bimfitwo's picture
bimfitwo

My concerns are satisfied. The problem I am having is I don't know how to PM someone, especially on this forum. I don't have the skill set, at this time, to do this. What I can do is give you my email address and when you reply, then I will email it to you.  The original recipe is set up for weighing more than measuring. I have it broken into grams because I weigh out my ingredients for more accuracy. I also use an ingredient that does not necessarily need to be used, although I do use it all of the time. This is "Vital Wheat Gluten". It helps strengthen the dough, but not necessary for home use. I also make a lot at one time (13 dozen rolls in one batch). I do have one recipe already broken down for a much smaller batch. If I can locate that file, it may work better.  Look forward to hearing from you.

phaz's picture
phaz

I would remove the email asap, I'll show ya how to pm. Being an ex computer guy from a long time back is best to not publish things like that anywhere on the internet. Anyway, click/tap my name and in there should be the option to send me a private message.

Weights and measures, no concern for me as I never weigh anything. And as I'm trying trying to match a specific taste from a memory from a long time ago, I'll probably be making on the fly adjustments. 

A question or 2. Texture, pretty soft? And the big one, the cheese. No way i can easily get the cheese required and my friend mentioned cheddar as close enough (lot of good sharp cheddar here). What would be a good substitute?

And i gotta hit some golf balls so I'll leave with a thank you very much!!! Looking forward to see the recipe. Thanks again and Enjoy!

bimfitwo's picture
bimfitwo

No matter what I do, I cannot edit out my email address. I have tried just about everything. Different browsers don't seem to help. I cannot even click or tap on your profile name to bring up the PM screen. 

As far as the recipe(s), you talked about the cheese. I believe we are discussing two different recipes. One is the "Pandesal" which is a type of dinner roll that is rolled in fine bread crumbs prior to baking. This is the product that this thread is referring to. The other is the "ensaymada" which is a brioche type of sweet bread that usually is topped with a buttery spread and the top is dipped in granulated sugar. This product is also often topped with a cheese that is grated, usually a light cheddar, or gouda. I do make this also, but I do not add the cheese topping when I give away or sell them. Mine are just butter and sugar toppings. 

As soon as I can figure out how to PM, then I will let you know. Thanks, again!

phaz's picture
phaz

Whoa, you got it right! I got the 2 confused! Sorry bout that! But brioche type for the ensaymada is a big help as is light cheddar/gouda for the cheese. And this may work it great. The daughter loves gouda. Don't worry about the recipes. Sounds like it would be a pain and I can come up with something pretty easy so don't trouble yourself. Thanks a bunch for the info, I got a recipe already brewing in my head! Enjoy!