May 10, 2020 - 2:41pm
Starter is rising but not doubling
Hi All,
I am on day 11 of my starter. I started it with WWF and have been feeding it unbleached all purpose flour whenever it falls, which is about once a day. I am keeping it between 75-80 degrees F. There are tons of bubbles and it is rising but it is not anywhere close to doubling.
If anyone has any tips it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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Hi I'm new at this too. My starter never doubled and it really bothered me. So instead of 1:1:1 feeds i started 1:2:2 feeds to give it more food. That seemed to help a little. Then when i give it a 50% hydration feed say 1:2:1 (makes it really hard to stir) or feed it WWF it seems to double. i dont' think doubling is mandatory for it to be able to bake with. i think the lower hydration feed makes it thicker and able to keep itself up better and that's why it seems to be able to double. i use the float test to determine ripeness, although i don't know how reliable it is. sometimes parts of the same starter sink and when i drop in another blob it'll float.
Ok that makes sense. Just to clarify, by 50% hydration you mean 1 part starter: 2 parts flour: 1 part water?
I will give this a try. My starter is floating nicely but I have read conflicting things about float test vs doubling. Have you made any bread yet?
Thank you!
yes. 50% hydration. 2parts flour and one part water. but i'm finding now, if i just feed it wwf and do 1;2;2 it almost doubles . i just find 1:2:1 really hard to mix because it's so thick. I've made bread but have an issue with gummy spots in my bread. just trying to trouble shoot that now. I've been really impressed with sourdough bagels.
yes. 50% hydration. 2parts flour and one part water. but i'm finding now, if i just feed it wwf and do 1;2;2 it almost doubles . i just find 1:2:1 really hard to mix because it's so thick. I've made bread but have an issue with gummy spots in my bread. just trying to trouble shoot that now. I've been really impressed with sourdough bagels.
Wow! I am shocked, my starter actually doubled! I fed it last night at 9:00pm and it had doubled by 4:00pm today. Not sure how to speed up the process but its nice knowing that it is viable. Do you have any tips for speeding it up or do I just have to keep feeding it like this until it becomes more active?
Thanks so much for your help I really appreciate it. I hope you're able to figure out how to get the gumminess out of your crumb.
Did you do 1:2:1? or 1:2:2. or use wwf? Has the weather warmed up where you are these past few days? Because it has in Vancouver and i was shocked when my pizza dough which i made with discard starter from the fridge grew out of it's bowl this am after resting on the counter overnight. I find temperature makes a huge difference for speed, and WWF instead of white. but it sounds like it's already pretty warm from your initial post otherwise i would suggest fermenting somewhere warmer. Sorry I only know celsius. I'd have to convert. You said 75-80f right?
I had given my friend some of my starter and told her she can probably bake with it 24 hrs after feeding because that's what i had been doing. But i didn't know she fed it wwf. so i think it must have peaked at 12 hrs and she missed it. coupled with the fact it's been warmer lately. she gave up after one day, lol. i think it takes a certain personality type to bake with sourdough starter. lol
Ok i'm just learning myself, so this is what i just read. If you do a 1:1:1 feed, your starter will peak sooner, i guess because it has less food, it's gonna run out quicker. But i don't understand why it doesn't double like it does with a 1:2:2 feed. Maybe someone else can answer this question.
If you give it less food, it will generate less CO2. And the bubbles of CO2 trapped in the dough (or in this case starter) are what causes it to rise. It is possible that there is simply not enough fuel in a 1:1:1 feeding for it to rise enough to double. A 1:2:2 has twice as much fuel, at least in relation to starter, and therefore has twice as much rising potential.
It won't actually reach its full potential because some bubbles rise to the surface and escape, and also it won't actually process 100% of the available fuel anyway (at least not unless you stir several times or wait a really long time, but either of those will cause it to fall anyway). So you can't expect it to be a linear formula. If a 1:1:1 feeding rises 1" and a 1:2:2 feeding rises 2", you can't assume a 1:5:5 feeding will rise 5 inches. But the 1:5:5 feeding does have the most rising potential. I would guess this is why we usually use large "feedings" when making a loaf of bread: we want it to be able to rise, and then rise some more after stretch and folds, and then rise some more after final shaping, etc.
This is not the only variable at play. For example a very liquidy starter might be hard to detect any rise at all because all the bubbles make their way to the surface and pop very quickly, never really getting trapped and creating rise. There are many other factors behind how much rise you get, as well.
so just because your starter rises more doesn't neccessarily mean it will be stronger at rising dough? so we shouldnt be too hung up on how much the starter rises? gosh there's so much to learn.
That's really interesting and makes sense. I am loving the science aspect of making sourdough. I feel like i'm back in school which is neat.
Do you think that my starter is ready to bake with then? I fed it more food last night 1:2:1 ratio and it doubled in about 18 hours.
i think it is ready to be baked with but maybe try a more forgiving recipe, like bagels. i found emilie raffias recipe on this other website. i used APF instead of bread flour. Canadian apf is fine for that
https://www.displacedhousewife.com/sourdough-bagels/
btw, what brand of flour are you using? I couldn't find my usual robin hood flour due to the pandemic so i've been using rogers silver star apf.
the book is calledArtisan Sourdough Made Simple and her blog is the clever carrot
I did the 1:2:1 with AP flour simply because I didn't have enough WWF. I am in Calgary and it actually has gotten a bit cool the last few days but I am keeping my starter in the oven with the light on and off to maintain an ideal temperature. Seems like 75-80F is 24-27C. It seems like our starters are sort of behaving the same way if I am understanding you correctly. When do you take yours to start your bread? Do you just wait for it to peak and then start your levain?
If someone could answer why it doesn't double with the 1:2:2 feed that would be so helpful!
i think because 1:2:2 is still 100% hydration , it's still runny and doesn't hold up well enough to double like littlegirlblue says. but it doesn't mean it's not active. i also read in another post, that a wetter starter will be more active, i guess because microbes like a wetter environment? so if you're using a 1:2:1 starter, you may have to ferment your dough longer. I usually check my starter about 12 hr after feeding and see if it passes the float test, it usually doesn't but then when i test in again in a little while, it passes. i wonder if the stirring has something to do with it. yes i wait for it to peak then do the float test and bake with it when it floats. I've been using the sourdough recipes from emelie raffia's book called everyday sourdough i think. if you click on my profile you'll see the exact title. alot of her recipes are on her blog called the clever carrot. i think they're good beginner recipes. simple and to the pøint .
I am using Rogers Unbleached All Purpose flour, but I started my starter using WWF. I used the Clever Carrot's recipe for my starter so I am familiar with that website. I will look into more of her recipes, thanks for the tip!
Tonight I am going to go back to feeding my starter 1:1:1 as I am curious if it will double after it did today. I am going to experiment with a few different methods when I finally bake and i'll let you know how it goes. I just wanted to make sure that my starter was ready. I will of course do the float test before proceeding.
Another thing is i think WWF is stronger and that's why it can hold up the weight and seem to double easier.
Hey. Just a quick update. I have made 4 loaves of bread and they all turned out really nice! I started feeding my starter 1:3:2 (starter, flour, water) which has made it about a 66% hydration. I am really impressed at how everything has turned out. Thanks so much for your tip because without you letting me know to feed it at a different ratio I think I would've given up.
I'm so happy to hear you were successful! Happy baking!
Excellent news!
My starter is super active and probably triples or more, it's great. I could have probably started using it like 3 days earlier if I had just moved it to a slightly warmer location. Used to put it on the table in another room and it bubbled up but didnt really rise much. As soon as I put it on top of the refrigerator it really took off! Make sure it's hot enough wherever you store it. Good luck!
Thanks for the reply. I am keeping mine in a warm spot. I tried the feeding method suggested by loaflove and it doubled. Just in 18 hours instead of 4-6