HI!
This is a specific post for anyone who has bought Jim Lahey's baking books and has experience in his simple starter method? I bought his Sullivan Street Bakery Cook Book and cannot seem to get past his simple starter recipe. I've tried so many times and wasted so much flour. Its actually quite aggravating. Im a pretty good cook and baker so its not about following the recipe. I just cant seem to get the liquid starter going. To make this clear his simple liquid starter is unlike any other sourdough starter recipes, he makes liquid starter using all purpose four and water and once its risen and fallen he does a refresh but making anew batch of flour and water and adding a table spoon of the liquid starter and keeps doing this until its yeasty smelling. From there he makes biga and from there you can make his breads. So he doesn't actually cultivate and feed a starter to begin with. This is why I'm asking specifically for people who have dealt with his starter recipe.
My experience - The first time i made it - it smelt rotten and didn't improve after refreshments and the next god knows how many times it smells like vinegar and doesn't seem to improve or do its business after again refreshments. I thought I was getting somewhere when i tried the wild yeast from a vegetable/fruit idea ( i used kale and then tried again with red cabbage) and it finally smelt yeasty for a day or two and then turned to vinegar again. Ive kept it in a warm room, a cool room. a everything room to be honest and nothing seems to get it going. I've ordered rye flour to see if thats better than king arthur all purpose as i hear it has more microbes. Before anyone replies I understand there are other methods for sourdough starter and i understand about feedings and all that, but his method is different and i would like to to try and achieve his. Would love any help! Thanks
What flour? Which country are you in? And what is the temperature?
Im in LA - when i first starter a couple weeks back the temperatures were cool like 50 to 65 degrees F. I did have them in my kitchen and was using tap water and king arthur all purpose unbleached flour. I eventually started using filtered water from my brita and boiled (but cooled down) kettle water. As its warmed up i moved the starters to a cooler room in the house that doesn't go over 70 degrees.
The last couple of batches Ive tried with Bob's Red Mill organic unbleached all purpose flour. I feel like I've tried so many different ways and it doesn't seem to work out.
and think I know why the attemps failed.... Temperature. 50- 65° F will take about a month to get a starter going. Too cold. Tell me. What would you do if I stuck you in the same room naked?
Starters like room temps where we ourselves are comfortable. Get the temperature up to at least 75°F and you may see some results. Even then, most starters are overfed in the first few days. Feeding daily at cold temps is not working and diluting the culture when it doesn't need feeding. Cold temps slow everything down, way down. Just when pH starts to fall, patience runs out. Na, ya.
Try this: Get a heaping tablespoon (about 20g) flour wet, cover it up. Look for a warm spot a good first day temp should be in the mid 80°'s then let the temp fall slowly to 76° after the first 24 hours. When the starter is about 3 days old add a flat tablespoon flour and slightly less but enough water to keep it wet. Swirl it around a couple times a day. Add a table spoon of flour everyday and a little water and just keep doing that until it smells yeasty. Then stop feeding it until it smells twice as yeasty. (Usually the next day.) Then remove a spoonful to another container (tuck the container into the fridge so you can come back to it if the next step fails) double the volume with water and add enough flour to make a soft paste. Let it rise to maximum height. Feed at peak.
This is why Im asking specifically for anyone who has his books and made his simple starter. Jim Lahey says temps need to be between 55 to 70. In fact if it gets too hot he says to put it in the fridge for 6 hours and then on the counter for 6 hours. He is pretty strict about it.
I understand what your saying with yours and may try it if all else fails here. This is his recipe below -
100 Grams (1 1/2 cups) water
50 Grams Flour (heaping 1/3 cup)
1. Mix together the flour and water and leave at room temperature in a jar.
2. Wait. The flour and water will separate. After 1 to 5 days the flour and water will begin to ferment and you will see some bubbles. The bubbles will push the flour toward the surface so that it mixes with the water and will start smelling yeasty and be frothy.
3. the foam will rise and expand and then will collapse and if given enough time will separate into flour and water again. Once this has happened its time to refresh your starter.
TO REFRESH
10 grams or 1 tablespoon of fermented liquid starter (you just made)
100 grams room temp water
50 grams flour
1. take you original starter after it has risen and collapsed and give it a good stir. Take one tablespoon and transfer to a small bowl. Add the fresh flour and water and mix. Pour into a new jar and let sit at room temp.
2. Let is bubble and rise like the first time and in time it will smell yeasty and champagne like. It should taste a tad tart. If it smells off start again with the reserved liquid starter from the first batch. If you doubt the health and vitality, refresh again. Keep refreshing until you have a yeasty smelling liquid starter.
This is basically his recipe, as i said different to every other one bc he thinks if the temp is above 70 that that is an issue? He suggests storing in 55 to 70F and no higher others to alternate between fridge and bench top. Ive also tried his second starter recipe that involves water that you soak a vegetable or fruit that has yeast bloom on it. That seemed to work for a day and then resorted to smelling like vinegar like the others.
To me, that reads exactly the same as every other sourdough starter. You mix flour and water and wait for microorganisms to grow and do their thing. Then you take some or all of that culture, and refresh it with more flour and water, and wait again.
Yes, there are variations in what kinds of flour/food is used, feeding schedules, ratios of culture to food when refreshing, and hydration ratios, but when you strip it down to the basics (and the biological processes we can't see without a microscope but they are what makes it work), they are all the same. The biggest departure is when some sort of "catalyst" is used. I'm using that word very loosely, but basically anything that is designed to speed up the process and/or make success more likely. Pineapple juice is one that is popular on this forum because it's acidic nature helps the culture get a good start, but there are many things people have tried.
This recipe sticks with just the basics of flour and water, without any departure from the basic formula at all.
If I were you, I'd be much more concerned at this point with finding a recipe you can successfully follow than getting hung up on one particular method. Once starters are active and healthy, they can be tweaked to your liking.
I thought recipes i had seen had shown people feeding the same jar and not discarding anything but i may be wrong as I'm new to sourdough baking. His only deviation is to use water that you've soaked a vegetable or fruit in that has yeats bloom on it. I have heard of pine apple juice being used so will look into that some more. Thank you
I meant to mention that I'm a newbie as well, and also struggling to get my first starter going, and that's a big part of why I'm thinking "anything that will be successful" sounds really good. But I think I've got a reasonable handle on the science & theories.
Anyone who is feeding and not discarding anything will soon have a massive culture on their hands. Or perhaps a dead one if they don't increase the size of the feedings as the size of the culture increases. Some people don't throw anything away, though, they simply use the "discard" in their baking projects.
Try these articles. I think they explain what's going on at the microbial level quite well and it includes the popular pineapple juice starter recipe:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
TBH i think you actually cleared up a lot for me. I might have been interpreting it all wrong and reading other peoples recipes wrong. Will take a look at the links. Thank you again.