Adjusting my sourdough to home milled flour?
Hello Fresh Loafians! I haven't posted in some time, but I lurk like crazy, and am back to get some insight from y'all. I have a Komo Fidibus 21 mill on its way to me from Pleasant Hill (birthday present, don't ask how many years.....), and I'm eager to dive in headfirst making some sourdough with my own, freshly milled grain. I think that I'd like to start with a recipe that I know well, so my standard sourdough recipe will be the first one I try. I would love to get your insights and advice on what adjustments I might need to make to my recipe in terms of ingredient amounts, hydration, etc. I'm expecting faster fermentation from what I have read, so will watch the dough closely. Here's my current recipe and process:
RWC SD (2 loaves)
- 1000g AP Flour
- 205g WW Flour (I plan to use freshly milled flour for this portion)
- 240g Starter (100% hydration, 50/50 AP/Rye)
- 770g Water
- 26g Salt
- Mix all ingredients (except for salt) until all dry bits are incorporated, then rest for 30 minutes (75F)
- Sprinkle salt over dough, incorporate using pinch method, stretch/fold x20, rest for 30 minutes (75F)
- Stretch/fold x20, rest for 30 minutes (75F)
- Stretch/fold x20, bulk proof for 1.5-2 hours (75F)
- Divide dough, pre-shape, bench rest for 30 minutes
- Final shaping, proof in towel-lined bannetons for 1.5-3 hours (75F)
- Bake @ 475F covered for 20 minutes, and uncovered for 20-25 minutes
My plan is to use this recipe to get a feel for how differently the freshly milled flour behaves, and, after that, I'll experiment a bunch. Thanks in advance for lending me the benefit of your experience with milling your own flour!!!
(FWIW, I have a sack of Great River Organic Milling Hard Red Wheat on its way, so I'll have plenty of grain with which to practice!) :)
Thanks,
Rich
To maximize the flavor of your home milled flour mill only what you need when you need it. If you increase the proportion of home milled flour in your bread you'll probably need to increase the hydration. Even with such a small amount you may need a little more water. Your starter could probably benefit from using home milled wheat and home milled rye so order the rye berries soon. Even though your fermentation will probably speed up you can expect an impact on gluten development from the freshly milled flour. Good luck.
Rich, congrats on making the plunge into home milling. Just wanted to say I am sure you are going to love the taste of fresh milled flour. If you have any leftover, I store mine in the freezer so it won't go bad. As for adjustments, I think you are going to just have to play it by ear. While Justanoldguy finds that his home miled flour needs more water than WW, mine actually needs a little less than ww.
It depends on (at least) how dry was the grain you bought for milling - and on how dry was the other grain that the commercial flour mill was using. (Grain is sold within an acceptable range of moisture content, but it won't all be exactly the same.) It probably also depends on how finely and evenly your home mill is performing, whether you're double-milling your bran or any other little tricks, what particular variety the farmer grew this year, and so on and so on.
This all means that you should see what happens and develop some general expectations, but also watch for changes and adjust. Do what works, and keep your answers and solutions as simple as you can. Complicated problems (with bread as with anything) are almost always simple problems that you haven't understood yet.
JaOG, Barry and David-
Thanks for the quick replies! So, it sounds like the answer to my question is YMMV! :) I sort of expected that, and really is why I plan to just start with a recipe I know, and just replace the WW portion to "control" the variable introduced by using flour I have milled. I definitely am looking forward to seeing how the starter performs with some fresh WW and rye, so I know I'll play around with that in parallel to making my first loaf. I'll just have to go by feel on how much water I need.
Thanks again for the input!
Rich
i use several different milled flours with each bake. I get all my grains from Breadtopia. They are very fresh. I would encourage you to get Durum for sure as it has amazing gluten properties. I also would encourage you to increase your autolyse to at least one hour to better hydrate your flours, greatly increase your gluten development while simultaneously decreasing the need for folds. Good luck and enjoy!
I love my Komo as well. The first thing that impressed me was how soft the crumb comes out. This is due to using the whole grain, and the inclusion of the "fresh" germ. You're probably aware from your reading on here of Dabrownman's greatest invention, the bran levain, but if not: sift your whole grains and use the hard bits in the levain. This is great food for the wild beasts and softens the sharp pieces. Their being soft is better for you and helps protect the gluten strands from being severed, so you'll get better dough expansion during fermentation and better oven spring.
I'm sure you're excited to experiment with the many other grains now available. I assume that somewhere on the Peninsula there's a good source, but if not, Rainbow Grocery in SF has an excellent variety of whole grains. I often mill 6 or more grains for a single bake, and add several other ingredients in a soaker.
Trailrunner, good input on the length of autolyse. I'll do my usual 30 minutes, and then inspect to see if I think it needs to go longer. I'll plan on an hour when I'm building up my schedule. Durum is certainly on my list of grains to try, and I'm working on finding some local sources of a variety of grains.
Filomatic, I have read about the bran levain, and have that on my list of things that I can play around with when I get my mill. I'll probably just go with my standard levain feed the first time out, but there are lots of variables I can introduce and play with using my milled flour. YES, experimenting with lots of grains is the main thing that has attracted me to getting a mill. It's a bit like when I switched from brewing beer with extract malts to all grain.....it opened up the amazing variety of grain types to me, as well as putting a lot of control of my ingredients in my hands, too. I appreciate the pointer to Rainbow Grocery. I get up to the City often enough that I will be able to pop in there an look around. I need to get to my local Whole Foods to see what they've got, too.....I've never paid attention to that part of the store before. :)
My mill is supposed to get here Friday, and, of course, I'm out of town this weekend! :(
Rich
Yes re brewing, the syrup to partial mash to all grain step up is a good analogy for flavor. Unless you buy in large amounts, though, whole grains are generally equal to or more expensive than commercial WW flour, whereas for brewing, grain is less expensive than syrup.
Totally agree, though, for both bread baking and beer brewing, it has always been about the process, control over as much as possible, and pride in making as good or better than I can buy. I'm pretty sure that even if I amortize my equipment costs over 25 years that I have not succeeded in making any beer that is less expensive than what I can buy (though, the prices that some of the new craft beers are going for could change that.....)
Mostly, I just get a kick out of the process and producing results that I enjoy.
Rich
Yes, but it was a revelation when I went to all grain brewing that, not counting water and energy, I was only paying 50 cents a beer in materials, and the beer was better than all but the better craft brewers around. Of course that was the 90s ...
With all such calculations, it seems to circle back to the question of how you decide which expenses to include.
Forget the development of language; forget the use of tools; what REALLY proves we're human is our endless string of rationalizations. ?
So true, David. I find that rationalizations are what make the (my?) world go 'round! ;)
R
If you are in the Bay Area it's worth a trip to Keith Giusto Bakery Supply in Petaluma. Excellent source for flours and whole kernels.
Tranewreck, I've browsed through the Central Milling and Keith Giusto site previously, so it's on my radar if I'm up north (I'm south of SF, so a bit of a drive.) Have you shopped there, by chance? I'm wondering if I can get quantities smaller than 50lb (many of their whole grains are only listed as being available in 50lb quantities)? If you happen to know, great, if not, I'll call (I know, old-fashioned, right?) :)
Rich
I have used its quality flours and grains almost exclusively for a decade. And It's quite close to rwc.
Address: 344 Littlefield Ave, South San Francisco, CA 94080
Phone: (650) 873-6566
http://giustos.com/
Yippee
Thanks, Yippee, I'll check them out! :)
R
Find out the above when you contact Giusto's. If there's a vendor by you, you can order through the vendor, pick up at the vendor's shop, and may even save a trip to S. SF. ???
Yippee
It's only 20 minutes from me, Yippee, and I drive through So SF frequently for work, so as long as I plan a bit, I'm sure I can drop by and pick up. I sent them a note this am to make sure that I actually CAN will call an order, and also to get their current list of grains. The website doesn't have any grains listed in the grains section. :) I'm sure it's a website issue.
R
I hope it works out for you! Grains are listed under the section for professional bakers, if I remember correctly. I've seen a larger selection of grains there.
Yippee
right here at the loaf!. They deliver all over. Seems pricey to me. But they have some selection! Enjoy!
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Pie King, thanks for posting that link!
R
Glad I could help
Yes, they carry five pound bags of most grains. Call them.
That's great to hear, Tranewreck. A buddy of mine works a few minutes away, so may ask him to pick some stuff up for me next time he's headed down here.
R