Cannot get starter to double in under 12hrs

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RealMenDIY on 24 Aug 2017 at 10:31

I am on my second attempt at making a starter; first one was overcome with bad bacteria.  The latest was started with pineapple juice and WWF.  It has been three weeks and I cannot get the thing to double in under 12 hours.  The last couple of days I have been retaining 25g of starter and adding 100g of bottled water and 100g of APF and it has been doubling in roughly 12-15 hours.  Prior to that I was retaining 3oz of starter, 3oz of bottled water and 4 oz of APF (yes I have changed from oz to g in an effort to be able to apply the suggestions read on this site) and it was doubling in 9-12 hours.  I was following this schedule for a week without a change in results.  It seems that my yeast isn't active enough yet to start baking and can't figure out how to get it there.  House temp. is 74° during the day, 72° at night.  All water is warmed for 10 seconds in the microwave prior to adding to the starter.

From what I have read it doesn't appear I need a warmer space.  It seems that retaining more starter and using a higher flour:water ratio was working better than the current less starter, equal parts flour and water.  Can't figure out what my magic formula needs to be though.

On a whim I tried to use the discard to bake some bread after the first 7 days of the starter and although it had good flavor it was flat as could be.  I think I let it proof too long and the gluten broke down.  I still ate it all however.

I've been baking no-knead bread almost weekly for over a year with no issues using commercial yeast.  I gotta figure this starter thing out.  Included the pic in the case that people can tell something by the way it looks.

It appears to me that you have a lovely starter there.  Congratulations!

A starter with a lower than 100% hydration will be slower to double in bulk, from my experience.  I THINK this is because it simply takes more power to push up a stiffer dough.

Another thing to consider is that your wild yeast and various bacterias might simply be a slower / less active combination.   I have often seen recipes for sourdough leavened bread to proof for many hours before baking.  If I did that with my current starter, it would be over proofed!

If you want it to be more active, you have to figure out a good feeding schedule for it.  Begin on a weekend when you'll be in and out a lot, and feed your starter in the morning.  Leave it on the counter, and observe the activity.  Use some tape or a rubber band to mark where it started and what is double in bulk.

Even if it has not doubled in bulk, feed it before you go to bed.  

DO NOT TOSS ANY OF THE STARTER!  Until you get a nice active starter, don't toss any.

Also, when I feed my starter, I measure out how much I'm going to refresh into a clean jar.  Then I add half that weight in my flour mix and I fill the old jar about half way with water.  Then I seal the jar and give it a good shake, and I use that water to refresh my starter.  

I keep about 150 grams of each of my starters.  If I am going to make bread, I double all of it. Some stays in the jar and bowl, and I use about 100 grams in my bread and keep about 100 grams for the next batch.  If I'm going to simply refresh my starter, I put 75 grams into my clean jar and proceed as I stated earlier.

The starter I know have was slow to develop.  At one point, I had a bunch of jars and was using quite a bit of my flour mix, but eventually one of the jars took off and started to be extremely active.  At that point, I used the other starters - spiked with a bit of yeast - in some bread, and I kept feeding my most active starter.

Personally, I use half Bob's Red Mill Organic Whole Grain Dark Rye and half commercial bread flour (I'm in a remote area, so I don't have access to organic white flour), Robin Hood Bread flour.  When I get home, I will find a good quality organic white flour and use that instead.

I'm not as experienced as many on this site.  This process works for me.  That said, everything I have read says to double the starter - i.e.: measure it and add, by weight, half water and half flour.  You are quadrupling your starter, and that could be your only issue.

higher hydration and more wholegrain the better - wholemeal rye is always good for a starter  - gives the yeasties more to feed on...temperature and humidity are also a factor. I love in Ireland and when i started building starters it was in the winter so i used the airing cupboard alot and they took their time. In the summer its a whole different story - i leave them in the kitchen and they need feeding at least twice a day. In response to that ive taken to lowering the hydration and putting them in the fridge. When i need some for bread  i refresh and start building 2 days before hand....having said all that your house temperature seems perfect... 

your starter looks fantastic. Youll find after a while  - as long as you look after it - that it will speed up in its eating -sort of like a growing teenager... 

 

Lower hydration and larger feeds helps it to rise more. Higher hydration and smaller feeds will speed a starter up. Doubling in a certain amount of time does indicate a healthy starter ready to go but it isn't the full picture. To build up a good yeast population in your starter then bigger feeds and allowing it to fully peak each time at room temperature before feeding again will help. Wholegrain will always help! Your starter looks great to me and has no issue in rising. If a starter rises then a dough made with the starter should also rise. A dough is basically a big starter feed made to the right hydration called for in a recipe and with salt. 

I'd try a few feeds of 1:10:10 making sure that 20% of the flour is wholegrain. Better yet keep maintaining your starter exactly and take some off to build an off shoot starter where you can try the following feed(s)...

5g starter + 50g water (I use tap water which has been boiled and cooled) + 50g flour (40g AP + 10g wholegrain) 

Try a few of these feeds with your off shoot starter. Save up the discard and use in your normal breads for added flavour or other recipes calling for flour + water.

As mentioned by a previous poster--mix some Bob's red mill organic rye flour with your wheat! I have tried many times over the years to get a starter going with no success, then followed instructions on theperfectloaf website, using the rye and KA unbleached wheat. By the end of the first week I had a starter that was doubling in 2-3 hours at room temp! Very sweet smelling, and the first loaves are crazy good!

And it certainly appears more active.  Larger bubbles, quicker doubling time, not soupy when I feed it.  Look at the attached photo and compared to my original photo the difference is evident.  I will keep up with my revised feeding schedule for a few more days but when is it ready to bake with?  Does it depend on the recipe I plan on using it for?  

I am getting antsy to start baking but will be patient if needed.

Does it peak within 4-6 hours. Take a little of the starter when peaked and carefully drop it into a glass of water... does it float? What does it smell like? 

P.s. the soupy feel is less because rye absorbs more water than AP flour. Not all starters behave the same way at the same hydration. Whole rye is a very good all round starter though so keep it up. If you're following a recipe that calls for starter with a different flour then all you do is take a little of your rye starter off and build an off-shoot starter, a levain, feeding it with the flour asked for in the recipe. 

It passed the float test weeks ago but because it was taking 12 hrs to peak I always assumed it wasn't ready.  Smells...well like a starter.  It has a doughy, tart smell to it; taste is sour for sure.  Does not smell anything like my first starter that was overtaken by bad bacteria.

Depends on how much fresh feed to starter, temperature and everyone's starter is different. 

Yours is certainly active, smells good and floats. 

Congratulations :)