The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Challenge done!

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

Challenge done!

My own personal challenge has now been done. Making a starter to baking a sourdough bread in under a week. I'll post the timeline but the formula was off the cuff. No measurements, a variety of flours and going by instinct. 

 

Monday Night: initial mix

Tuesday Night: peaked and bubbling away. Smell was definitely leuconostoc in nature. Fed early Tuesday evening and within 2 hours it had peaked again! No difference in smell. So fed again. 

Wednesday Morning: it looked like a small volcano had gone off. Quick clean up and fed again. Smell no different. 

Wednesday Night: some activity but entering the quiet stage. Was only going to stir it but when doing so it had a nice spongy interior and a better smell. Normally I'd expect no smell in the quiet stage or perhaps a lingering off smell but this one already smelled like a ripe starter. 

Thursday Night: less activity but still looked good beneath the surface. Fed again. 

Friday Night: quiet. Some small bubbles on the surface but nothing to get excited about. Getting a good ripe smell though. No feed. 

Saturday Morning: a few more bubbles and a little rise. No feed.

Saturday Night: a bit more rise and loads of bubbles on the surface. Very nice smell. Gave it a good feed. 

Sunday Morning: a lovely risen starter. Normally I'd feed a little while longer before attempting to bake but I thought what the heck and pushed ahead. 

Sunday Late Afternoon: mission accomplished. 

 

It's been fed a variety of flours in random proportions... Bread, whole-wheat, spelt, khorasan, rye, Italian 00 and the hydration through the feedings has been varied as I just estimated everything. 

hreik's picture
hreik

Looks terrific. Is there any Durum in there? 

hester

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

The crumb does look yellowish and I was wondering about this too. Then I remembered that because it was an impromptu bake that the starter had durum's closest relative in it - khorasan (kamut variety). That coupled with some bad photography encouraged this durum looking loaf. 

Because this bake wasn't planned and I needed 150g I began to measure out the starter to find that after 150g worth I was only left with scraps clinging tongue side of the container. Never mind... Challenge number two! Added in water and alot more flour, mixed it up and left it on the side. It is young and then I didn't even know if the bread would work or not but worth a try. Sure enough within 12-18 hours it had bubbled up very nicely. Will do one more planned bake this weekend then amalgamate it into my other starter. Introducing and mixing new starters gives the health of your ongoing starter a boost I believe and introduces another depth of flavour. 

joc1954's picture
joc1954

educational purposes and I also hit leuconostocs. I am only at end of day two and hope that the silent period already started.

Well done Abe,

Joze

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

We're always learning hence the challenge. Trying to utilise the knowledge gained from my own experience and everyone here. Let us know how it goes.

joc1954's picture
joc1954

It does not behave to what I have anticipated. There was a short period of less activity after day two, but not really calm for a day or two as I expected. Now I am almost at middle of the day four and starter almost doubled after 3 hours and half after last feeding (see the pic), will see how it will be in few hours. It smells normal for a young starter. The smell is little sour.

I am feeding it with freshly ground whole wheat which was harvested about 10 days ago from a field less than 1 km away from my home - really local one.  Actually I grind the flour directly to the jar. It is staying on the counter in my basement kitchen with more or less constant temperature in this period at 23 dC.

So now I am really not sure if I hit leuconostocs or it was normal activity. Definitely so far no real calm period with exception of day one.

A month ago I was in Macedonia  and made another starter in 6 days and that one was developing right on the "supposed" schedule. Now I am a little bit confused, but let us wait and see what happens. Most likely I will make a small loaf out of it instead of discarding half of the starter. I would really like to see how it will behave. I just got a new very strong bread flour (the strongest so far with 14% of gluten) and would like to test the flour as well. 

Happy baking Abe,

Joze 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I like what I see. Your day four starter looks like a one which has passed the quiet stage. Perhaps your really fresh flour from field to the jar in no time at all, perfectly timed feedings and temperature just right you've found the perfect combination.

I do like the fact the field is less then a km away and you grind straight into the jar. Literally from the field into the jar.

It certainly looks good and if it smells good then I say you're onto a winner.

Hope you get to bake on schedule and let me know the results. Time to think of a recipe.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I would not rush it at 23°C  (73.4°F)  I'd say it may take more time than 6 days.   

joc1954's picture
joc1954

Instead of continuing in this post I created a new one where I am sharing some facts.

Happy baking,

Joze

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Amazing (link)   You must also have some good sourdough beasties around in the kitchen as well.  Fresh flour (most likely very active yeasts) and your skills make for a fast start up.   I seem to remember that the SFI also gets their starters up quickly in their baking environment.    

Lovely first loaf.  Savour it and take notes on the flavours.  Also put some of the starter away as back up even though it went easy and quickly.

joc1954's picture
joc1954

Sorry for so late response, forgot about unanswered post in this thread. I am still convinced that the freshness of the grain with a lot of natural yeast on. I will try to reproduce it.

Happy baking Mini,

Joze

 

bread1965's picture
bread1965

.. that's the true sign of an artisan.. well done!

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Is to turn the process of making a starter into something which isn't stressful. What a difference to when I first started down the sourdough route.

Thank you.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

When you say "fed" the starter,  are you only adding flour and water?  No discard involved?  

What is the approximate temperature during the entire process?  Did it vary?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

The feeds were eyeballed and I discarded about 2/3rds to a 1/2 depending and less when it slowed down further. When it bubbled up a lot! in the very beginning I discarded more. When it slowed down I discarded less. Trying to feed it but at the same time not slow down the process of it becoming acidic with too much fresh flour and water.

I kept the starter in a warm cupboard. It traps the heat. Trying to think how to gauge the temperature and although it does vary through the year in the past two weeks the coconut oil has been in a permanent liquid state. Have just done a google search to find out at what temperature coconut oil melts and that is 76°F.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I would do just the opposite.  Discard less in the beginning if at all and more later on when it was growing.  Have you tried going for a very warm first 24 hrs to put the bad bacteria in overdrive to kill themselves with their own acid?

Thanks for the comeback although I get confused reading it.  The part about becoming acidic with too much fresh flour and water. 

Bread crumb looks good by the way.  

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I don't discard or feed until it has had the first bubbling up. Then I find that it does go into overdrive and from experience I find that with the second feed they eat through it very quickly as it happened here and bubbled up within 2 hours again. On the third time too. So I do feed more.

But I hear what you're saying. Feed less so they kill themselves off quicker even if it is very active. The reason why I find it bubbles up very quickly in quick succession is because I'm feeding them and they aren't killing themselves off.

Interesting!

Now my reasoning for slowing down the feeds when it all goes quiet is because too much fresh flour and water at that stage raises the PH level. I wish to feed the yeasts and bacteria that are in the very young starter but not to upset the acidic environment. So after the final feed which sends the starter into the quiet stage I then slow the feeds down.

Perhaps a mix of both ideas where I don't feed until the bad bacteria kills itself off, then I give it a big feed, after which I then slow the feeds down once again. Picking up the feeds once it shows signs of life again.

Just to point out that as the yeasts and bacteria did begin to grow and show signs of life I do pick up the feeds. Perhaps I wasn't clear on that point. Or missed that point out. My theory is if there's no activity then what would I be feeding but when there is activity they need feeding. And the stronger the activity the stronger the feed. In a young starter!

Thank you very much Mini. As good a crumb as my other bakes from my established starter. That's why I was surprised.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

when the pH has fallen, the bad bacteria gone replaced by supporting bacteria, and the yeasts are ready for more food.  I've hit it several times at just the right moment to jet rocket the yeast population.  After that sudden boost of yeast activity, the starter then needs a pause from feeding for the good bacteria to catch up and drop the pH to protect itself (with the yeast) from invaders that will come with the next feeding, in the flour itself.

Mini

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Think I understand what you're saying. Allow the bad bacteria to die off (keeping it very warm will speed up this process) and then once they've killed themselves off "the sweet spot" then give it a good feed for the good bacteria and yeasts. Because I fed too quickly I prolonged the first stage and got 3 bubblings up in quick succession from bad bacteria.

I shall try again!

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

crumb with a week-old starter.  That's amazing!

While I'm impressed with the loaf and always love when you share a bake, what I'm really grateful for is how you and Mini Oven and joc1954 are showing here how basic and simple making a starter can be, and stripping off all of the mystery and "it's gotta be perfect because baking is science" silliness that surrounds bread and starters in many of the books and web-pages and fora.  It isn't always going to work out right away, or work the same way each time, and we each might have different reasons for differences in method, but there really is no need to be obsessive about perfection and micro-details and you can still get an end result that is wonderfully functional.

Thanks for keeping bread making, from starter to loaf, as something accessible and possible even for us less-than-perfect new bakers...

There is one wee little problem, though --- your example can lead to folks like me trying different starters, different maintenance methods, and different levain builds, and thus end up with fridge and counter littered with various experiments...  I'm pretty sure that I could do at least a half-dozen large (1.5kg or larger) loaves from the levains I have right now, and that's not even touching the "mother" rye and durum starters.  Anybody need a spare levain or six?!?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Week old starters can be great fun and the taste is "fresher" when compared to a veteran sourdough culture.  Sort of like a young wine being compared to a tried & true aged wine.  There is something "fresh" and "green" in a new starter that makes  for a nice change if you hit it right.   I sometimes cringe when I hear about a starter being months old before it was ever tested in a bake.  A moment of silence please for a learning experience passed by.   That first loaf right away is often most interesting and fun to compare to a starter a few weeks later.  But not all wild starters are trouble free and follow directions when starting up, after all, the little wee beasties are little wee beasties.  :)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

If not more tasteful then my well established starter which needs more encouraging to bring out that tang. The bread itself smells very nice too. Toasts up nicely.

At the moment it's being turned into a durum starter with a few feeds and the next bake will be Altamura style.

Tasting starters at different stages of it's maturity is fun. We'll see what happens with the next bake.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Also fun to compare my attitude and style from my very first starter to this one. All that measuring and following the clock with frantic questions to what's going on to this. Can't help but think that a few thousand years ago they didn't have all the recipes for making a starter we have today. The science of starters is pretty simple - well the methodology is but what's going on under the microscope is another story - and I can't help but think we over complicate things. This challenge was as much about making it a fun process taking away the scales and formulas and just creating a starter using many different types of flour and seeing what happens. The different grains come from many different places and using them all in the process has made a tasteful starter. In fact with Mini's comment below about tasting the bread of a young starter this loaf was very tasteful. Have a nice smell coming from the bread itself too.

My new starters are used to make a bread or two and then they get amalgamated into one mother starter. This adds a new dimension and brings different characteristics to my well established starter. Stops it from being in bred and brings new health to it. It's also fun to see what it brings to new bakes when its amalgamated.

My new starter is now being turned into a durum wheat starter for an Altamura bread next. After which it'll go into the mother starter jar.

Thank you! Perhaps the crumb turns out this way because of the way I knead and fold?