Hi,
Newbie here, need a little help with a starter I started on 22nd dec. I just mixed in 5g of wwf and 5g of water and continued refreshing every 24 hours. After going through all stages described by Debra Wink, around the 9th day, I found a lot of bubbling at the bottom of the jar after a period of stillness and my starter also smelled a little pleasant (a smell I equate to the presence of yeast). Today being the 11th day, I switched to feeding with apf and luckily its still bubbling, and smells pleasant too.
So I think I can safely say I do have a somewhat active starter which spreads out and bubbles up within 3 hours but it doesn't fall or deflate even if I don't feed it after 24 hours ... my first question so what kind of a pattern should I be looking for before I think of baking.
Also, just as an experiment, I strted collecting all my discards in a separate glass which also smells yeasty and bubbles though not as much. My second question can I use these discards for baking sourdough flavoured crackers?
Nice to have you on board and Happy New Year.
A really active starter is a nice problem to have. Two questions though...
1. How much fresh flour to starter are you feeding?
2. If you take a teaspoon of your active starter, once peaked, and carefully drop it into a glass of water does it float?
Discards can be added into other recipes the most obvious ones being pancakes and waffles but anything that has flour and water in it is fine. Have you been collecting discards for all 11 days? Does that smell good too? Don't want you baking with bad bacteria which is often present in the first few days of building a starter.
How much discard do you have?
My problem is I can't quite decide if its really active n am I starving the yeast or are there not enough yeast in there, it is quick to bubble up within 3 hours but ends up looking the same the rest of the 24 hour period.
My usual schedule for 10days was 10g starter, 5g wwf n 5g water. Starting today I made it 10g starter, 6g apf n 4g water.
Just stired my starter and it sinks (5 hours after feeding).. ?? Will try again at 24hrs?
I started collecting discards around day 5 (or maybe 6) when the nasty smelling creatures seemed to have dissapeared. Have got around 1/4th cup which I added a little flour to today, it tastes kind of tart, what do you think is it safe to keep or better to discard?
Now that your starter is picking up. These poorer feeds are ok when starting out as the mixture needs to become acidic and too much fresh flour slows things down. But poor feeds become detrimental to an established starter which is basically starving it.
How about you start feeding it 1:1:1 or more? You now have 20g starter so feed it 20g water + 20g flour. See how it reacts to that. Keep doing this over the next few days and keep the discard. I think it's ok to use the discard from here on in. Should your starter slow down wait until it picks up again to feed. Each time it has peaked try the float test. Once your starter begins to float when peaked then that is a good sign.
Once you've built up enough discard here is a nice recipe to follow http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/classic-sourdough-waffles-or-pancakes-recipe
I have used sourdough discards to make crackers with great success. I also use unfed starter to make English muffins (also on the King Arthur Flour website).
I agree with Lechem - you should probably now start bigger feeds. What I do is keep about 100 grams of mature starter in the fridge and use it to build my levain before baking bread. When I do this, the ratio is 1:2:2 (so, to build 100 grams of levain I use 20 grams of the starter, 40 grams of flour and 40 grams of water). When the mother culture gets low, I refresh it at the same ratio, let it bubble up then put it back in the fridge.
If it is bubbly and 'pouffy' and floats in water, it should have enough yeast to rise bread. And if it smells good it should have enough good bacteria to make it taste good! If it starts to smell like nail polish remover, it's hungry and needs a bigger feed.
I do love a toasted scone with strawberry jam.
Check out some of these recipes at Cultures for Health.
Thank u Lechem! Wish you a very happy new year too. Will change the feed ratio and revert back!
Thanku lazy loafer, I'm qlso gonna watch out for a smell that resembles nailpolish remover. One more thing I noticed is my starter expands, liquifies and bubbles after a feed and after I stired it today mid day, it started bubbling in around 3 hours but the bubbles are still the tiny ones and I don't see it rising a lot and though its poufy, it sinks in water. I am now believing, the bubbling is caused by some lab and not yeast?
It will need greater feeds. So you can switch to 1:3:3 until the smell becomes more pleasant. But for now 1:1:1 should suffice. See what happens. Remember to feed only if there is activity. Should your starter ever slow down, or become dormant, after a feed then wait till it becomes active again. If while waiting it begins to smell not so pleasant then a teaspoon or two of fresh flour should help to offset any bad bacteria. But I think your starter should go from strength to strength now with some TLC. Test the starter with dropping a teaspoon of it into a glass of water when peaked each time just to see where it's at. Don't do anything rash if something seems off. Throw the question here and we'll see what we can do.
Different flours at different hydration will bubble up differently. Don't be over concerned about the bubbles. Some bubble up, very high hydration starters with white flour might just froth. Lower hydration rye starters might have big gaping bubbles. As long as there is activity and a good smell it's showing signs of good health. These greater feeds will help with yeast population which is probably low at the moment.
Happy New Year. You'll be baking before long.
Sounds like your starter is ready to go. Having switched my starter from 100% to 70% which at the feeding ratio of 6g to 4g that is about what you have, I find that is does not fall and is vigorous. I like it at that hydration even though it is harder to feed but it's done only once a week so it is not too much of a bother. It is fed with a 50/50 blend of WW and AP and I think my particular starter likes that mixture.
So, I divided my starter today (10g + 10g) and fed both with a ratio of 1:1:1 (plain flour n water only). Now after around 8 hours, the main starter has some activity though slightly less (or probably same with just slightly fewer tiny bubbles around the glass) while the discard I placed in a new glass has almost zero activity.
I remember I use to have a whole wheat starter long back that use to rise really well as compared to the starter fed with apf only unless I feed with 60:40 ratio instead of 50:50 for flour is to water. Just wondering if the apf I am using is just too weak.
And fed each one the same then there's no reason why one would have activity and the other not. That is puzzling.
Whole wheat flour will be stiffer than AP flour at the same hydration, hence the seemingly more activity. A high hydration AP flour starter will trap less gas than a starter made with whole wheat.
Here's an idea... The one that has activity wait for 12-14 hours to see what happens. Should it come more to life then feed that starter (now 30g) with 30g warm water (boiled and cooled!) and 30g flour (20g AP + 10g whole rye or whole-wheat if you don't have any). See what happens. Should it further slow down then skip a feed or two, keep warm and stir it every 12 hours instead.
With the seemingly less active one just keep in a warm place and stir. Skip a feed or two. Should it begin to wake up then start feeding.
Puzzling indeed! Living creatures are unpredictable that way, I'm happy about one thing though - my main starter showed a clear sign of rising (but not doubling) and falling with a mark around the glass, so 1:1:1 worked and I think it smelled somewhat like yogurt today ... LAB overtaking yeast? Not sure if that is the way it should turn out but whatever it was, I was happy and I continued the same feed ratio.
The second glass with the discard is what confuses me, while it shows almost zero activity yesterday, the smell today @ 24hr mark was definitely nail polish remover (strange that someone should mention it and I notice it just the next day). I'm wondering if this particular starter was also active during the night and slowed down by morning (I did see light bubbles when I stired it) so I used my instincts and went with only a slightly higher ratio - 15g starter and 20g apf + 20g water. At 7 hours after feeding, there is no smell, no bubbles but it has risen slightly today while the main starter that I fed 1:1:1 shows no bubbles or activity.
I am unsure what exactly is happening here and hoping that both my starters are just a little slow immidietely after feed and only peak after 12 hours or so (during the night), its either that or I somehow managed to killed the yeast. Super confused for now.
Nail polish = hungry, however there appears to be no activity. Perhaps a picture? Feed, put an elastic band at the level of the starter, wait 12 hours and take another photo. Feed 1:1:1.
Your more active starter sounds promising. Yoghurt smell seems to indicate a high LAB count. You have fed your more active starter (15g) with 20g AP + 20g water. That was 7 hours ago and no bubbles. Now you wait! Keep warm and stir every 12 hours. Now it's a game of patience. Warmth and time! Seems like you've reached the "quiet" stage which is not a bad sign at all. Your starter is "sorting" itself out and things are happening even if you can't see it.
Once your starter shows signs of life then feed again. You might want to put a rubber band around the jar just in case it does wake up and fall during the night. Also look for starter clinging to the side. You might have to wait a day or two or even three. If it begins to smell "off" then give it a small feed (a tsp or two of fresh flour and a little water but that's it) and then carry on the wait. When it does wake up then begin the feeding again.
Woke up early this morning to check on the starters and the main (Yogurt smell fed 1:1:1) still shows zero activity (no bubbles, no smell, no rise) so will wait to feed till it gets active. While Discard (nailpolish smell- fed 15:20:20) was rising slowly since feed time and has certainly risen a lot (almost double) and has bubbles too.
I have pictures but unable to load (not sure why but this site is not supporting).
My question for the active starter, how can I just keep it going without going dormant like the other one? Feed more?
So, now that you've got one active, doubled and bubbly, use it to bake bread! Drop a bit into a glass of water and see if it floats; if it does, it should rise a loaf of bread. Use up all but 20 to 50 grams. For the remainder, add double the weight of the starter in water and flour (so, for 20 grams of left-over active starter, add 40 grams of water and 40 grams of flour), stir vigorously and leave it at room temperature until it is once again doubled and bubbly. Then just keep it in the fridge. When you want bread, take out some to build your levain (the starter for the bread) and put the rest back into the fridge. Refresh (feed) it when it is down to 20 to 50 grams again or once a week, if you don't bake too often.
they have switched. The previous active one has gone quiet but the nail polish one has woken up.
1. Just keep stirring the yoghurt smelling one and keep it warm.
2. With the newly awakened "nail polish" one keep feeding it till the nail polish smell has completely gone and it smells nice then try baking with it, as long as it keeps bubbling when fed and doesn't slow down.
Lechem, the nailpolish smell is only there around at the end of 24 hours ... when u say completely gone, do you mean a healthy starter should never smell of nailpolish... how would u describe the smell of active yeast?
Fed the nailpolish one with 20g:40g:40g today (it still sinks in a glass of water so not ready) and over 3 hours after feeding theres not much activity there except one faint bubble on the surface. Now as both starters seemed to have a very dry surface at feed time, I just poured a few drops (maybe 1/4tsp) water on the other (my main) starter which showed no activity earlier but now has quite a few bubbles on the surface. Its still not showing any rise or smell (except the flour smell if I sniff too hard). So waiting patiently with both my starters.
Not sure I understand why this is happening but I often meet a dead end like this when I change my starter from wwf to apf.l (I also don't know why I have so many fruit flies in the kitchen this winter). Hence, I've never baked a bread and only do sourdough flavoured crackers. Hoping to move a step further this time, Thanks to all of you who are throwing in ideas, I'm learning a lot from all u guys.
If your starter peaks at 12 hours and you leave it for 24 hours then it will be starved and can begin to smell of nail polish. Are you doing the float test when peaked or after 24 hours?
I did the float test at 24 hours, should U do it at 12? And what if it floats? Do I feed it or wait till 24 hours?
This brings another question to my mind, most breads recipes say you can bake when your starter rises and falls predictably (which is around 3-8 hours from what I read) ... thats not something I have achieved yet. So what kind of adjustments should I be making to the rising and proofing time according to the schedule of my individual starter?
If peaked after 12 hours then try the float test then. Yes, starter predictability is a good sign. But don't forget that a starter which hasn't been fed in a while, as its been sitting in a fridge, will take longer then one that is fed every time it has peaked.
Try doing the float test when peaked which seems like at the 12 hour mark. See what happens. Don't wait 24 hours but feed again straight away and see how much quicker it reacts.
Also, don't forget there are other variables like how much seed to fresh flour ratio.
Thank you. As my starter slowed down a bit since adding apf and rises but doesn't fall, I couldn't quite point to any particular point in time as peak but I get the picture, will try the float test at different stages of the rise.
I'm gonna try doing a few feeds with bread flour instead of apf and also a mix of wwf n apf.