Bien Cuit loaves over proofing in the fridge

save it if the pre-fermented flour is too large or the the bulk ferment too long or both - plus the high fridge.  I don't do much of a bulk ferment anymore and try to keep the pre- fermented flour to 10-12% in the Spring - to get 18-21 hours of shaped retard but it still come out a bit over- proofed anyway...4 degrees in the fridge can speed up proofing 35%.

The loaf on the right looks great by the way.

Happy baking 

to drop your fridge temp anyway.  The FDA recommends 40F or below to minimize bacterial growth.  They also recommend the freezer to be kept at 0F.  I have tried keeping my fridge as cold as Dabrownman, but my eggs kept freezing, so we have it set at 39F these days.  Besides, it's warmer year-round in Arizona where he lives than my kitchen in Colorado, so he probably needs a couple degrees more cooling than I do.  You'll have to make adjustments for the ambient temp in your kitchen, but 40F should still be the max.

     --Mike

Hi - I have been using the Bien Cuit book and also have found that to be a problem.  I have made the 60 hour sourdough a number of times, and the recipe for that instructs you to let the shaped bread rise 5 hours at room temperature, and then 30+ hours in the fridge.  In my home, which is usually around 60 degrees, I have found that if I put the shaped loaves immediately in the fridge (without any time at room temperature), it will rise nicely and be ready to bake about 24 hours later.  On the other hand, I just made the bialys, following the recipe to a T.  The whole time they seemed to be underproofed, with no second rise after shaping, but they turned out great.   I think the problem with these recipes is that they only mention how long each stage ought to be, without mention of temperature (except instructions for water temperature when mixing the dough) or how risen the dough should be at certain stages.  It does make it more difficult to be successful the first time, but I have found all of the recipes I have tried to be worth it.

Another thing I have noticed about Colper's recipes is that many of them have a reasonable amount of rye in them. Rye seems to rise more easily in the fridge than wheat breads, in my experience, so fermentation times of retarded rye breads seem shorter.  If you cut out the time the bread spends at room temperature and still find it overproofing, I suggest using less sourdough in the recipe. 

I recently bought this book because it has interesting flour, grain, and inclusion combinations. Hand-mixing these doughs is not for the faint of heart because doughs are very wet. Although Golper says to add as much flour as needed, sometimes as much as 30 to 50 grams (I guess this range depends on whether it’s a 1 or 2 loaf recipe), the addition would change a highly hydrated dough to a heavier loaf. I resisted adding extra flour and was rewarded with great results. His way of incorporating inclusions into his doughs doesn’t give me very even distribution, but for now I am following his method until I figure out a better way.

Breads that I have tried, all baked on stone with steam (as opposed to his directions for some to be baked in Dutch oven): 

Pane Pugliesse: this has an inclusion of diced roasted yellow potatoes that are distinct from the crumb. I did not care for the potatoes as an inclusion. Also, this bread was a bit bitter. I don’t know if the bitterness came from the rye starter or the potatoes. I might try this one again with a white flour starter and include the rye in the final dough instead. It did not need a bench rest of 1 hour before retarding as he directs.

Kørntüberbrot: uses minced corn kernels and cornmeal in the starter and adds parsnips as an inclusion in the final dough. The bread itself with the corn kernels and cornmeal is delicious, with sweet bursts of flavor from the corn. I didn’t care for the parsnips and would omit them next time. Did not need a bench rest of 1 hour before retarding.

Whole Wheat Bread with Pumpkin Seeds: this bread uses both toasted pumpkin seeds and pumpkin flour made from seeds. It was unclear whether the seeds that was to be made into flour should be toasted. I sent an email to Golper’s bakery in New York, hoping to contact Golper that way to clarify this, but got no answer. I decided not to toast the pumpkin seeds to make the pumpkin flour but next time I will do so because there was no discernible taste of the untoasted pumpkin flour. The dough had a crispy crust and was tasty. Did not need a bench rest of 1 hour before retarding.

Portuguese Corn Bread: starter is made with cornmeal and rye, and recipe includes cornmeal, milk, extra virgin olive oil, and honey. The bread was delicious. Did not need a bench rest of 1 hour before retarding.

Buckwheat, apricot and black pepper bread: recipe has a rye starter. It was delicious except for the hits of black pepper, which are off-putting. I will omit black pepper next time. Golper’s recommendation to use unsulfured dried apricots - I was able to find some Turkish apricots – is spot on. They had a soft velvety texture rather than the leathery texture of the sulfured ones. This one did not call for a bench rest before retarding, which I would not have done anyway.

Autumn Maple Rye Bread: includes milk, maple syrup, and butter. Bread is delicious. I though his timing for the length of the bake was wrong (20 minutes + an additional 5, if needed), so used my normal method. The bread was delicious. This one didn't call for the 1 hour bench rest before retarding either. I will try to post a link for this bread with the changes I made if I can figure out how to post it. 

Ok, I figured out how to post it. Here is the link to the write-up: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/76377/autumn-maple-rye-bread

I will continue with his creative combinations. I guess I am always looking for something new and unusual even if I must contend with some anomalies. I couldn't find an errata sheet for it.

Karyn

Jon,

I am having a hard time uploading my post for the Autumn Maple Rye bread but here is a link to my ingredients (I changed a few things from Golper's recipe).

Karyn

Rob,

Golper adds inclusions at the last fold. Also, for the Buckwheat, Apricot, & Black Pepper bread, he only does one roll and tuck sequence. That might be the problem with the particularly uneven distrribution in this loaf. I envision his rolls and tucks like making a baguette, just rolling and pushing from the side instead of top down and with a bit more force. It also may be that adding inclusions earlier might be better. I just don't know.

The recipe from the website you linked to for the hazelnut loaf looks like the one in my book. However, you note that you used a rye starter (unless I read that wrong) and there is no rye in this formula, nor is there potato. maybe I'm reading something incorrectly.

Golper's Portuguese Corn bread is different that other recipes I have seen since he enriches his. That might account for a lighter loaf but it still has a fairly tight crumb. His total formula uses 51.6% white flour (11.3-12.7% protein), 41.9% medium grind cornmeal, 6.5% white rye, 29% water (60 degrees F), 37.4% cold milk, 6.5% ex virgin olive oil, 5.2% honey. Starter is 69% of the cornmeal, all of the rye, all of the water with a pinch of yeast (for 2 loaves; I made 1 loaf so used a small pinch, ~ 1/8 tsp). 

Karyn