The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Baguettes Formulas

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Baguettes Formulas

Alan, you offered to give me more detail on a variety of formulas for baguettes. I really appreciate this.

As to the 80% hydration baguettes that I made, I had no issue with the dough. I am not sure if it is the flour I have in Canada that absorbs more water or the fact I am working regularly with 78% hydration doughs, but shaping and handling is just fine for me.

Danni

alfanso's picture
alfanso

so buckle up!

I'll offer three different formula for baguettes here, although there might be a bit of bastardization from what the "original" had.

One place where I do go off the rails from what a formula states is that I retard the bulk fermented dough for a few hours (time is fairly irrelevant), and then divide, pre-shape, shape, and then couche them and they go back into the refrigerator.  They can stay retarded for anywhere from ~12-24 hours or more total refrigeration time.  At that point they immediately go from retard right into the preheated oven.  Some folks do it similarly, others prefer to allow the bulk fermented dough to be shaped and then bench proofed.  Whatever method works for you is fine by me.

As far as scoring goes?  Do look at David Snyder's TFL tutorial which he mentioned in the other thread.  Also, here is a very good video from Ciril Hitz on baguette scoring.  Getting good scores on baguettes is a tough business but very satisfying when it comes about.  After the 10,000th baguette we should all have it down.  My 10,000th is due to come around sometime in year 2047!

Bouabsa style baguette

This is a straight dough, no unique preferment baguette that uses very little IDY and insists on having the long cold fermentation time do its work.  As simple as they come, for a non-levain, it is also about as pleasing as they come as well.  75% hydration.  You can find David's posts on his journey to make these by searching TFL for them.

 

San Joaquin Sour Dough (SJSD)

This is the formula that many folks on TFL rave about.  As with the other two, it can be made into batards and boules as well as baguettes.  A liquid levain is used for this 72% hydration beauty.  Again, you can find David's posts on his journey to make these by searching TFL for them.

Pain au Levain with WW 

A Jeffrey Hamelman favorite.  This dough is just delightful to work with at all levels.  They all are, but this one particularly so.  This uses a stiff levain at ~60%, and the overall dough is at 68% hydration.  

Here is my blog post on this one with the formula.

Well, that should keep you busy for a while!

alan

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Thank you! Yes, this will keep me busy for a while! I am retired, thank goodness, so I will have time to play with this. I will be sure to post any questions I have back here as I go along.

First question: Do you preshape directly out of the fridge after bulk fermentation or do you let the dough warm up for a period of time? (What is your normal practice?)

Once again, thank you!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Yes I do.  Once I played around with and tried out a few different tacts, I settled on this one.  My M.O. is to take the dough out and immediately divide and pre-shape.  They sit on the bench for ~10 minutes with a towel over them to prevent any possibility of the surface drying out.   Then the final shaping, laid onto a couche (which itself sits on a small jelly roll pan) and then all get placed inside of a plastic bag to keep the moisture in and any refrigerator odor out.

I'd earlier ran a set of "tests" where I was "cold proofing" instead of bench proofing, and this current method became a next step in my trial and error process.  Doing the activities this way allow me much greater flexibility at controlling the schedule of events, rather than being a slave to the kitchen timer.

Carolina's picture
Carolina

Hi,

Can you please explain what you mean by French folds - 300.

I understand stretch and fold but I am not sure what is meant by french fold.

 

Many thanks

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Hola Srta,

Antes de nada, disculpe los errores del teclado!

Si no me recuerdo, estas de Espana, si?  Hay un video de "La Cocina de Babette" lo que explica todo.  En casi demasiado detalles ínfimos!  Busque YouTube para "amasado francés.  Kneading bread french style", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apR9Id7gjG8 .  

En Ingles con sonido sobrepuesto, vaya a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUZ0O-Wv0Q .

Tambien, hice dos videos cortes así: 

300 French Folds es el numero lo que yo elegido porque tenia la idea que 200 no fueron bastante!  Nada mas...

Hazme saber si hay mas preguntas. (tal vez en Ingles).

alan

 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Carolina,

Sorry, but I confused you with Carlotta, who posted on TFL over the weekend.  How can be???  So, here it is in English:  Watch a long video from "La Cocina de Babette" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUZ0O-Wv0Q .

Or two much shorter videos which I made, specifically about the Bouabsa baguette at: 

300 French Folds is nothing more than the number of folds which I settled on after feeling that 200 wasn't enough, nothing more.  More questions?  Ask away!  I'll try to remember what parts of what continents I'm responding to!

 alan

Carolina's picture
Carolina

Hi Alan,

Thanks so much for the links - I could watch those youtube videos of bread kneading and baking all day.  I will now give the baguettes a try.

You are right - I am on the wrong side if the pond - in Australia.

Cheers,

Carolina

 

 

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Hi Alan, hopefully you see this before tomorrow. I am starting the San Joaquin Sourdough Baguette recipe. I got the levain going tonight and plan to make the dough tomorrow. Of course, I have a few more questions:

1. What is your usual room temperature in your kitchen when making these baguettes? My room temp is between 70 and 72 degrees. Knowing your room temp will help with my timing of the bulk and the proofing.

2. What temperature water do you use in the dough?

3. What is your final dough temp?

4. I am assuming that French folds are the slap the dough down on the counter, pull gently, fold over and then give it a quarter turn before doing it again. Is this right?

5. Letter folds? Is this folding one third of the dough over itself, folding the other third over the first, giving it a 90 degree turn and repeating? Or is this stretch and fold where you pull the dough from underneath, stretch it gently and fold over the top?

6. After baking with steam for 12 minutes, do you remove the steam for the last 8-10 minutes?

Thank you! 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Lucky for your timing, I was online when this came through minutes ago.

Just for the record these are originally the work of David Snyder who inhabits the TFL ether himself and can also be relied on for specifics.  That is for sure.

I do things in an unorthodox way much of the time now that I've come far enough along to "violate the rules".  So my answers may not meet the guidelines of purists and folks who need to/want to/have to stick by the book.  Okay, now that that is out of the way...

1. What is your usual room temperature in your kitchen when making these baguettes?  I live in Florida where it is "always summer", so my kitchen is typically somewhere between 78-80dF most of the time.  I understand that most folks don't have the luxury or desire to keep it there, but I'm somewhat lizard-like in ambient temperature desires (hence my choice of where I live!).  For example, Ken Forkish (I know you like his work) probably keeps his FWSY home kitchen in the mid 60's, which is why a lot of folks on TFL report that they complete bulk fermentation much faster than he outlines. 

2. What temperature water do you use in the dough? I use water that is quite a bit warmer than many due to the fact that I keep my always-ready-to-go levain (what I define as the ingredient that goes into the final dough mix) in the refrigerator and use it directly from there.  The levain cools the warmer water down, the warmer water warms the levain  up and I obtain a happy medium.  In truth, I never temp the water, just go by feel, figuratively as well as literally.

3. What is your final dough temp?  Uh-oh!  I also never temp the dough, naughty me...I reached a point where I knew how long to let the dough bulk ferment, and as opposed to so many other Loafians, I watch the clock and not the dough.  But I will guess that the dough reaches and maintains the ambient 78-80dF after a while and then just stays there.  I'll add that my belief is that folks who mix by machine rather than hand have to be significantly more careful due to what is referred to as "mixing friction" heating the dough up.  That should not be a problem with French Folds and hand mixing as the constant contact with a "cooler" workbench surface is not conducive to heating up the dough in the same way as by machine.

4. I am assuming that French folds ...?  Yes, see what I sent to Carlotta (who miraculously turned into Carolina) in the comment above: Babette's long video and my two short videos. 

5. Letter folds...? Another yes.  Some folks do these in the fermenting bowl, but I like to dump the dough onto the workbench and do these there.  Here's another short video of me doing that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yStZN7SaZV0 .

6. After baking with steam for 12 minutes, do you remove the steam for the last 8-10 minutes?  Yes.  I'll get a lot of steam going, and never open the oven door to marvel at my masterpiece during this period, else the loss of that precious steaming environment.  I'll remove the steam from the oven - in this case the Sylvia's steaming towel (the pan with lava rocks has already dissipated all of it's water into steam at this point).  I then rotate the baguettes (or batards) 180 degrees from front to back and also from left to right while spreading them out as far as practicable from each other for even baking of the side walls of the dough.  And I might do that again as they near completion too.  However long they additionally take to bake, I just let them rip until I think that they are done.  As they are very close to completion, I'll turn the oven off and crack the door open to let them vent for the final minute or two.

At this point you should not be shocked to read that I don't temp the bread for an internal temperature either.  Basically the deal is that I lived by the book until I felt that I understood how things worked in my environment and then just established a repeatable pattern.  You will also get there after a number of bakes.  I know there are some on TFL who would be aghast and denounce me for being a rebel, but I'm telling ya, once you have it down it starts becoming second nature.

Not blowing my horn, but because it is so second nature to me at this point, I almost never make an error in scaling, mixing, dough rise, divide, shaping...It's like brushing your teeth, you just know how to do it.  But I also never take it for granted and always pay attention too.

One caveat is that if you are in an environment where there are constantly temperature and humidity swings or play around from bake to bake with varying ingredients, then you really will have to keep an eye on what you are creating.

And one more thing.  I treat virtually all my doughs the same way as I outline in the box at the bottom of the Bouabsa formula.  They cold retard for a long time, then I'll pul the bulk, and divide, pre-shape, shape and then get them back into the retarder for x hours more.  They go directly from retard to bake with no warm up time. Rebel!

Well, that is the short answer ;-) .  Good luck this evening and tomorrow morning and please post your masterpiece too.

alan

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

I am so glad you caught my post tonight so I had the answers before I start mixing tomorrow. The big thing will be to probably increase my times since my room temps is a fair bit cooler than yours. I will use the rule of 240 for the water temp and we will see what happens. Even if it doesn't look as good as yours and I know they won't, it still will be better than store bought bread and a lot healthier too! Thank you again! =-)

PS. I won't be doing the long proof retard since I presently don't have room in the fridge for the shaped baguettes. I will have to keep that in mind for the future and plan accordingly (ie. empty the extra fridge ahead of time. ;-) )

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Okay, mine look no where near as nice as yours. I forgot to angle my lame as I was scoring the baguettes, although I was thinking about it seconds before slashing. The lame dragged through the dough and there went the angle. 

I will get a crumb shot when I cut them open.

amber108's picture
amber108

Just wanted to say Alan, these are some of the best sourdough baguettes Ive seen!! Ive wanted to make them for our customers but havent the time and brain to put it together, one day I'll get to it :)

alfanso's picture
alfanso

I appreciate the kind words.  A lot of practice and not such very good results preceded getting them to come out looking like they do this past year or two.  Give them a try, regardless of whose formula you chose.  Frustrating at first, but quite satisfying in the long run.

alan

amber108's picture
amber108

Yes sourdough is a labour of love even at the best of times. We've had people asking if we do baguettes but we already do 9 varieties and we were doing croissants and scrolls as well, it was too much. I really think it would add nicely to have beautiful baguettes but our doughs are mostly wet and so I dont think theyd be suitable..... and the formula looks hectically complex at first glance :o

Anyhow theyre beautiful!

https://www.facebook.com/Levadura.organic.artisan.sourdough/

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Here is the crumb shot. It has that nice glistening quality to it. I am not sure that it shows up in the picture. The baguette was delicious!

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Danni,

These are beautiful.  Your shaping is lovely and well executed, the crumb has some opening, and the bake is in my ballpark - nice and dark!  As far as scoring goes, yours look fine for an opening salvo.  These are quite tasty breads, regardless of the shape that they are finally made into.

This should give you some confidence to explore and try a few more times any and all three of these formulae.   

Scoring baguettes is often referred to as one of the harder finishing tasks, and is decidedly an acquired skill, for all but the few naturals out there.  And as I've mentioned on these pages, it becomes easier after the 10,000th baguette.  David Snyder has a scoring tutorial on TFL to view and Ciril Hitz video on baguette scoring is top notch viewing.

When you get ready to try the Hamelman formula, you may only be the second person on TFL to do it as a baguette, as I can't seem to find any other reference to anyone other than me doing it.  But the dough itself is a delight to work with.

One further tip about scoring dough.  I dip the tip of my blade into a tad of olive oil before scoring each baguette.  It virtually eliminates drag.  Remember to use only the tip of the blade when scoring.  That also eliminates drag or snags the dough.

Brava!  alan