I completely agree with your assessment on the necessity of a lye bath. It's unnecessary for the home pretzel baker. In fact, I called my cousin, who owns an Auntie Annes Pretzel Store and she said that she'd heard about lye-baths for pretzels, but always considered it a very old-world, hard pretzel tradition.

I've made countless pretzels using a recipe similar to the one here. And, like you, I've found that boiling them first gives them a significant edge over dry baking. :) I used to egg wash mine, but I gave it up when the kids couldn't notice a difference.

I found the fermentation was helpful; not so much for taste, but in my small kitchen it gave me time to clean and prep for the shaping.

Hi,

I'm an absolute fan of Hamelman's bread book. Everything I tried turned out great. I made the Pretzels with real lye (NaOH) and they tasted absolutely authentic. I should know that because I'm from Germany ;-) You can see the result in my blog Chili und Ciabatta

Good to know.

I have to admit, when I spent a couple of weeks in Koln a few years back I ate a ton of bread (mostly rolls), but I never got around to trying pretzels there.

Without the lye bath the pretzels come out like the soft pretzels that are commonly found in the States at places like baseball games, but I bet they are a lot different than authentic German pretzels.

I added a link to your blog to the link section. I remember looking at it when you first joined this site... you bake some beautiful stuff!

Thanks for adding the link to my blog :-)

Pretzels (or Bretzeln, Brezeln as we call them) are very typical for the southern part of Germany, for Bavaria and Baden-Wuerttemberg. My brother, who lives near Koeln, has to import them from the south ;-)

Wow! I made these this afternoon and they are simply amazing! I let them rise (outside in the warm sun) for about 30 minutes, used the egg bath...they baked up to be fabulous! I am considering making pretzel rolls, using this recipe, later tonight.

I brushed them with melted butter before salting and baking :-)

Hey! How can you say with confidence that you can skip the lye bath if you didn't even try it?
A good pretzel isn't for the timid! Real German pretzels have a distinct taste and texture. Chewy -- almost bagel-like, but with a tough "skin". They also have an odd, bitter taste. Mmm! Goes with beer.

A dilute lye solution isn't hard to handle. All the recipes I've seen call for a VERY weak solution. I've been burned by concentrated lye a few times with no permanent damage (so it did make my skin peel and bleed). A weak solution should be even easier to handle. It burns skins very slowly, so if it is washed off quickly you should be fine. I'd be more concerned about having it splash in my eyes.

I'm also looking for a recipe for Lye Rolls, but this seems to be even harder to find than mercury cake frosting. You can't find everything on the internet.

I can say with confidence that you CAN skip the lye bath, because when you have small children in the house, the option of only the fanciest schmanciest pretzels that can require a hazmat team at the ready or no bagels, this makes a damn good compromise. I think the point here is that you can still do this at home even without bringing in stuff that will make your skin "skin peel and bleed" ;)

My grandmother taught me to bake. She was full German extract, her father and mother came from near Nuremburg. She used baking soda in place of the lye bath. You can wash the pretzels with 1 Tablespoon of Baking Soda in a cup of boiling water. Sodium Bicarbonate is a mild base as compared to Sodium Hydroxide (lye), for the chemists amongst us. You can put 4 Tablespoons in a quart of water and actually boil them similar to the way you do a bagel before cooking. This gives the more authentic feel to the pretzels.

I found this site through my friend Markalope and his delicious-looking pictures of these pretzels.

I made them last night with a lovely little twist - I stuffed brie in the middle before baking! They were absolutely divine and we named them "brietzels". 

I followed the instructions up to rolling out the separate sections. Once that was done, I used a sharp knife to slice halfway through, the entire length of the roll, and spread the dough apart. I sliced brie into 1 cm by 1 cm strips and laid it in the dough, then pinched the ends back together over the brie and twisted it into pretzel shape. I used the eggwash and kosher salt, but I bet cinnamon/sugar would be a great topping with this as well. They baked just fine and only a bit of the brie bubbled out here and there.

And really, oh my goodness, they were SO delicious. I'm now plotting other things to stuff into these pretzels. What a recipe, mmmm, and a delicious site in general! Thank you so much!

Laura Jones
Fan of Bread (and Cheese)

Hello!

I tried pretzels last night. They were edible, but they stuck to the pan. Once they've been dunked in boiling water they go on the baking sheet. Does the baking sheet need to be greased or have corn meal on it? I used a light covering of olive oil. Maybe I didn't let the water drip off good enough before placing them on the pan...

Any ideas on why my pretzels stuck to the pan?

Thank you,

~John

I actually did use a lye bath to  make pretzels, or "pretzel bread" from Rose Levy Beranbaum's The Bread Bible.  http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=21995818&postID=115480965776492221

I'm not sure that it was worth it, but I'm glad I tried it once.

HILLMAN AND LOFS HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD.  BRUSHING, BATHING/BOILING USING A BAKING SODA SOLUTION, AND THEN SPRINKLE W/ COARSE SALT MAKE THE BEST AND SAFEST PRETZELS.  NO EGG WASHES ETC.  THE SODA WASH CAN DEAL WITH A HOT OVEN AND STILL GET THE SHEEN.   WHAT REALLY MAKES A PRETZEL ARE THE VARIOUS ''DIPS'' OR ''CONDIMENTS'' THAT CAN BE CREATED.   ANY IDEAS OUT THERE?  

Instead of lye, I use barley malt (dry malt extract), like you'd use in beer making or as a replacement for sugar in bread making (malt is a simpler sugar and easier for the yeasties to eat). I probably use a half cup or a cup of malt disolved in water and then brought to a boil -- watch for boil-overs (it can be a sticky mess)! The malt gives a great sheen, a deep dark brown color, and real tough skin texture. I just throw the pretzels in the boil, turn them once after a minute or so, take them out to drip dry for a couple mins, then throw salt on them and toss them, still moist, directly into a 500 degree oven on the stone - sizzle!

I prefer the flavor of sourdough pretzels made by just taking a good sourdough sponge and adding enough flour to make your dough -- which is the same recipe i use for pizza crust and rustic crackers -- super simple, naturally tasty :)

... but the real trick to making pretzels: shaping by just grabbing the ends of the rolled out dough, and with one quick flip, getting them to twist up and flop down in the perfect pretzel shape :)

I just wanted to share with you just how much I love this pretzel recipe.  I've made it twice this week already.  I only use 2 1/4 cups of flour, boiled them in baking soda/water, used regular table salt to flavor the tops.  My husband dipped them in cheese sauce. 

How wonderful thank you!

Vicki

This recipe rocks!! I just made a batch and it's so easy and so so deliclous!! I boiled mine in water with a teaspoon of baking soda. 
Thank you so much for sharing this recipe!!

I've tried the pretzels both ways. With the lye bath you get a strong "bite" and a great texture reminiscent of "real" german pretzels. Without the lye, parboiling with (or without) soda, you get a pretzel that's also good, but more reminiscent of the soft pretzels from a streetcorner in Philadelphia. My best luck with coating a sheet is both oil and corn meal. Parchment paper works, but the lye dip will burn holes in it.

The lye is a fairly weak solution, but you must be careful to get food grade lye. Drain cleaner is a big no-no. You can often find food grade lye inexpensively at soapmaking supply shops.

Ok, In my and my wives opinion...the only way to make a true "Bavarian Bretzeln" as they call them is with the lye wash.  I am still trying to perfect the proper way to bake it but I can say if you are looking for the crisp dark brown color you won't get it any other way.  Food Grade lye is used at a 3% dilution which is still enough to which you should use gloves and glasses.  Food Grade Lye is available by mail order at  www.aaa-chemicals.com for a reasonable price.  I mix 4 Tablespoons with 8 cups of warm water in a non-reactive bowl, seems to work great.  I am gonna experiment with maybe spritzing it with a spray bottle and see if that will also work.

BTW, the picture at the top of the page, those pretzels are lacking the twist that makes a pretzel a pretzel.

Just for the record, my wife is from Bavaria and also from Munich, very close to where they hold the Oktoberfest each year, I have gotten approval from her and also my father-in-law to make these in America.  LOL !!!  Good Luck all and please try it at least once.  By all means if you haven't had an Authentic German Pretzel, then make the trip, and yes, they are much different than those things we call pretzels.

This is in response to the sticky pretzel question.  I made one batch of pretzels that stuck to the pan because I didnt add enough flour.  The recipe is a little unclear of just how much flour to add exactly and 1 cup can make a big difference. 

The second batch I made I added like 2 1/2 cups of flour and they didnt stick.  I am going to have to experiment to find the best flour consistency for my preferences.

Anyhoo, hope that helps.

I made another batch of these pretzels.  I used exactly 2 1/4 cups of flour and they turned out wonderful.  #1 Really make sure that water is boiling like crazy before you dunk them in.  #2 Make sure your pretzels are dry on the bottoms before placing them on the pan #3  I used a light spray of non-stick cooking spray. 

Hope this helps JohnM...oh and cant say I've ever played VP at mainstreet station :) 

I just made this recipe  (I actually have 1/2 of them in the oven right now)  and regarding sticking, I used my silpats to bake them on and it worked great, no oil and no drying the bottoms.  I use my silpats whenever I bake bread and I never have any problem what so ever.

I am loving these pretzels!  I just hope ther are some left for my husband when he get's home they are, after all his valentines gift! 

 caribbaker

Somebody please help me.
What is the difference in ingredients or prep or technique that makes a soft pretzel versus a crispy hard pretzel?

You can make pretzel-shaped pastries out of whatever you want, but if it's a south Germany type pretzel, it has to have the lye dip.

This is widely thought to just give a brown colour and a particular skin texture, but that is minor compared to the flavour.  The lye, the baking heat, and the surface of the dough combine in a reaction that makes for the unique - and to those who have grown up with it, absolutely indispensable - pretzel flavour.

In fact, look in the ingredient list on a bag of hard crunchy cocktail pretzels.  Sodium hydroxide.  Baking soda, egg yolk, hot water... they don't produce the same flavour.

Having just made a batch last night, I can tell you how nasty 3% NaOH solution (the correct lye - and it HAS TO BE FOOD GRADE to avoid harmful impurities) is.  If it dries up on a standard laminate countertop (getting concentrated in the process and leaving a white powdery residue) it will very slightly etch it - about comparable damage to scouring with the green side of a new dish sponge.

It does not react with iron or copper.  It does react with aluminum.  It reacts very slowly with glass... concentrated pretzel lye kept in a glass container will eventually make that container not quite clear any more.  Keeping a 3% working strength solution in a normal glass jar with screw metal top is unproblematic.

If you touch it, it feels soapy.  If you expose your hands to it for a minute - I did that while hand dipping some buns - they will itch for two days, and the top most layer of skin will peel.  Not recommended.  Don't get it in your eyes under any circumstances.  A simple cheap pair of tongs to grab the unbaked buns/pretzels to dip them is sufficient.

Yes, it's nasty stuff, but you need it.

I got mine from an outfit called "Lentia" in Toronto, Ont. that still sells it.  Dilute the powder at a rate of 36 grams per liter of water (carefully - adding the powder to the water, NEVER the other way around).

I read that it's hard to find in the USA because of its use in making illegal drugs.  Figures.

Markus

I found these really cool shaping videos on a German site. I've got a translated link here for y'all.

I don't doubt that this pretzel recipe may be quite tasty, but if you are talking about the dip being what makes the pretzel, it is absolutely different from a bavarian pretzel.  Sholdn't need anything, except perhaps, real unsalted butter. 

We love this recipe. We made this at my daughter's school - preK class, ages 3-6, and it was a simple fun and tasty.  Does anyone have a source for the malt powder?

How does one dispose of a lye bath ... is it safe for the plumbing to flush this down the toilet or sink ?

I'd like to try a cold, food grade lye batch but I don't want to store the solution in the house.

 Thanks, BROTKUNST

I've been making pretzels lately and note that some descriptions talk about holding the dough between two spatulas in the boiling water bath. (I use baking soda 1T per cup of water). I use a simple French bread type dough recipe and the second rise makes them puffy enough to float and still firm enough to use tongs for handling.

I experimented with a tomato-herb pizza dough that I had frozen and found that although the pretzels were okay, they did not float and were kind of gloopy to handle. Point being, using the right dough makes it easy and fun.

If you add about 1/2 to a teaspoon of celery seed to the dough mixture you get a bite more like real pretzels. I made pretzel rolls using a similar recipe, they were yummy. I had a little trouble finding the correct dough consistency though, does any one have any photos of what the dough looks like before you let it rise?

I tried making pretzels once....what a disaster.

 How do you boil them without them instantly turning into noodles?  The outside got immediately soft and mushy.  Then I thought "well maybe this how it is supposed to be" and tried to bake them--you ever try to bake a soggy noodle? <roflolol>

How stiff does the dough have to be?  and how do you keep them from turning noodly?

Thanks!

My Grammy Albertine was an amazing cook, and cooked professionally in a hotel kitchen in Switerland before emigrating to America.

Her pretzels were legendary, and her recipe differs substantially from the one printed here. First of all-- no sugar in dough, a little salt. A cup & a half of lard in the dough. Dough allowed to rise for an hour before shaping. Once shaped, left overnight, in a cool place, on baking sheets. (I live in a small Manhattan apartment, with a small Manhattan refrigerator, so I put them on my fire escape, covered in Saran.)

No boiling! Lye bath? ABSOLUTELY. Kosher salt, obviously.

The result? Glossy, dark-brown pretzels with frissuring on the outside... MUCH less puffy than those shown in your photos... crispy outside, tender inside. Very distinctive taste to the "crust".

It's a little strange to buy a cooking ingredient at the hardware store (I use "Red Devil" brand lye), but it's not as dangerous as you all seem to think. I've never worn gloves-- and certainly not GOGGLES-- while making them. I've even dipped them with my fingers occasionally, instead of tongs-- mildly irritating, until you rinse your hands. (I've learned not to use teflon-coated baking sheets, though-- it'll remove the teflon, DON'T try it.)

All who've sampled my grandmother's recipe are blown-away, and they immediately demand that I manufacture these commercially. Alas, like all beautiful things, they're short-lived and will harden to rock within about twelve hours or so. Covering them will Saran makes them soggy, due to the salt.

Lye is sold for the sole purpose of unclogging drains (if you discount home pretzel-making) so dump it into any household drain that would benefit most!

Is there such a thing? Sounds like a superstition, to me....

I have been trawling the web for the perfect German pretzel but most seem too complicated for a simple girl like me and a lot of them had a ridiculous amount of sugar (I am from Australia and our bread doesn't contain much sugar compared with the US), so was excited to find the above - and woohoo - it worked!!  I couldn't wait to make them and even used out of date yeast and they were still wonderful!  Thanks for the recipe - they are the closest I get to German pretzels here in Australia!

P.S.  I also added the baking soda to the boiling water instead of just plain water in lieu of the lye.

My sister and I tried these and they were amazing.  We stuffed them with a combination of spinach, (precooked) pork sausage, and pepper jack cheese, and they were quite incredible.

Thanks for the instructions & the recipe. They were great!!! I brushed them with melted margerine (I think butter would have been better) and topped with cinnamon sugar. yumm

My(X) hubby was stationed in Germany, 4 years in Munich and 6 years in Stuttgart and we stayed an additional 4 years in Stuttgart. Soft pretzels and pretzel rolls were sold on the street daily as a main staple. While there I had the opportunity to attend a Volks Schule where they taught basic recipes. While traditionally they indeed used lye (many still do)in pretzels, many now use a couple teaspoons of baking soda in the boiling water instead. They used enamel pots instead of aluminum pans or other metal pans because the soda will cause discoloration. I used a glass pyrex "pan". They allowed the dough to proof after shaping for 10 or 15 minutes...and after boiling for a couple minutes, they had them drain on a baking rack. While on the rack they brushed an egg wash and salted them-then placed them on the baking sheet, Thats about it. I make them often with great results.

Food grade lye is not a superstition or urban legend.  It is a government dictated standard regarding the amount of impurities in the lye. 

Regarding the necessity of the lye bath...define "necessary"...

If your goal is to recreate an ancient bakery product that has been made for hundreds of years and to recreate that product in the Southern German style....you need the lye bath.

They really do taste better with the lye.  And they look better too.  I have to imagine that if you are a member of this site that authenticity and quality of appearance mean something to you.  

That said, there is nothing wrong with taking on a pretzel project as a fun family activity.  In that case I recommend the boiling baking soda as a substitute. 

If that is still too much for you, at least dip them in a cold baking soda solution like Auntie Ann's does.  

The higher PH of the lye/soda will greatly assist in the carmelization of the crust.

As a final note, I guess I don't understand the hostility regarding the lye bath.  Like I mentioned previously, if you are so into baking that you are a forum subscriber here, should you not care at least a LITTLE about authenticity?  It is irrefutable that the lye bath is a critical component to traditiional Bavarian/Swabian German pretzels.  

Quit looking for a shortcut and do it right.  It is worth it.   

Here's my experience (I am a very very novice baker) with this recipe.

I feel that I must add my 2 cents to this heated lye debate. I haven't made pretzels either with or without lye, but I do know a thing or two about lye itself.

Way up near the top someone asked wether lye was Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide. I must tell you that it is both. Sodium Hydroxide is a relatively new type (within the last 150 years or so) that is distilled out of sea water - hence the sodium. Potassium Hydroxide is the old-timey kind that is leached out of ashes.

As a soap maker, I have used sodium hydroxide (Red Devil lye). For soap making, it is used in much higher strengths that for boiling a pretzel, I'm sure. If splashed on clothing, it may leave a bleashed spot or a hole. If splashed on the skin, rinse thoroughly with cold water immediately and you'll be fine.

After making soap in an iron pot over an open fire at an 18th century Fort for a summer, believe me - it won't kill you. Even without gloves and goggles. I was constantly splashed with raw soap...  At one point I cleaned out my iron pot with bare hands.  NO- it wasn't my brightest idea. YES- It stung, quite a bit. YES- I figured out a better way to do it in the future.  NO-I didn't lose any of my skin.  That being said, I agree with every other poster - DON'T GET IT IN YOUR EYES!!

Also - about wether lye 'deactivates' in the oven. The reason that no one has singed their skin off with real lye soap is because the chemical does evaporate over time. That time is shortened with heating. Soap that is boiled before pouring will be ready to use almost immediately after hardening. Soap that is not boiled will need to cure for about 6 weeks. That being said, dipping your pretzel into already boiling lye water and then baking it, should be more than sufficient at remove any traces of the lye from your food.

I also think that "food grade" lye may be a bit of a stretch. 100% lye is 100% lye... if there are and dangerous additives, it can't be listed as 100%.

I hope this has been helpful in the way of a lye explanation, to alleviate a few fears and myths. Now - I just have to try the pretzel recipe so I can decide which way I like them better!!

I couldn't wait after re-reading the posts, so I jumped right into pretzel making. If you've read all the way down these posts to mine, you must be pretty interested in pretzel making, so I'll share the details.

I decided to make 3 kinds - Plain, Cheddar and Dessert - 2 of each. After I proofed the dough for an hour, I divided it into 6 pieces. 4 I rolled into long snakes, and 2 I kneaded together with 1.5 t. cinnamon. (it took a while, but it all went in - ended up streaky like cinnamon swirl bread!) Then I cut the cinnamon dough into 2 and rolled those as well. By that time, the first 4 were ready to be rolled and stretched again. When they were all 15" long and the size of my finger, I followed someone's idea and split the cinnamon and 2 of the plain rolls open longways with a serraded knife. The dough was a perfect consistancy, and opened nicely, without sticking. To my surprise, they were a little bit hollow - perfect!

For the dessert pretzels, I filled the cavity with brown sugar. For the cheese ones, I took 3/8" x 3/8" strips of very mature, strong cheddar, broke them into short pieces, and pushed them into the crack. For both kinds, I wet the edges of the dough before sealing. Then, I pinched up a high ridge, wet the whole ridge, and folded it over to seal it down to the dough, rolling it seam-side-down for a bit to ensure a good seal. I formed all into pretzels as instructed.

I didn't happen to have any lye available, so I used the "1 qt. water with 4 T soda" approach for the boiling. I boiled them for about 30 seconds on each side, then removed to a cooling rack and immediately sprinkled with salt while still slimy. I boiled the cinnamon ones last in case the cinnamon got into the water (which it did) and did not sprinkle those with salt.

By the time they were all done, they were actually firm enough to pick up and place on my pre-heated baking stone. I removed the stone from the oven, placed all pretzels on, then put it back. In my convection oven, they only took 7 minutes. The cinnamon ones were immediately removed to a cooling rack and brushed with my dessert topping - 1T butter melted with 1T brown sugar. Both the sugar and the cheese boiled out some, but I didn't lose much.

The dessert ones tasted very nearly like my homemade cinnamon rolls - and were a lot less work!! Next time I plan to toss raisins with the brown sugar, then stuff the rope with teh raisins.

My husband nearly lost his power of speach when he bit into a cheddar one. All I got was "Oh... wow..." And then the pretzel was gone. Anyone who's ever made bread with chunks of cheese in it knows what happened. When cheese cools inside bread, it clings to the bread, leaving a hollow place in the middle. They were outstanding!

We are too stuffed to try the plain ones, but from tasting the dough of the cheese ones, I can tell you that they will be awesome.

The outside of the pretzels was firm and chewy - the indide soft and tender. My husband declared that this recipe was "a keeper", and I will continue experiment with fillings - Sooooooooo good!

I made sourdough pretzels recently and bought some "food grade lye" online from AAA Chemicals.  It only takes 1 Tbs of lye to 1 quart of cold water to make them up, so it's very dilute and couldn't have been simpler.  If you refrigerate them first, they keep their shape.

The lye breaks down the flour into sugars that brown nicely - it also firm and restricts the outer skin so they don't puff up too much.  They should remain fairly dense. Also, I used high gluten flour, which helps. De-lic-ious!

I can't add much to the excellent posts describing the science and advantages of using a hot lye bath when making pretzels.  I came to the same pro-lye conclusion while trying to perfect my bagel recipe.  Traditional bagel recipes also call for a lye bath, and I find it really makes a difference.  You will never get that beautiful mahoganny color (see madeingermany's post) with baking soda.  And it does make a harder, sweeter crust.  Is working with hot lye dangerous?  Sure is.  I don't even let my dogs in the kitchen when I'm using lye, and I wear safety glasses.  Some folks might prefer the taste of pretzels or bagels made with baking soda (I agree, they can be quite tasty), but for me the extra effort is worth it.

I also tried this recipe and I skipped the lye bath. No no, not affraid if getting burns or anything, it's just hard to find that around here (Israel), so I used baking soda in the bath... and I got mixed reviews from the family.

Though the pretzels came out beautifully (and very much pretzel like!), I just could not bare the taste on the crust. It tasted like baking soda... or maybe not... it had that after taste of monosodium glutamate. So while we were all trying to get over that ever present crust, the crumb was pretty good. I ended up washing my pretzels with a little water and putting them in the toaster... which was an improvement.

While not quite over my minor mishap, I did another batch, this time, I made a bagel style dip, with honey. Well, it's good to know that the results where amazingly different... I got some really nice bagels! The crust was fine, but softer and it didn't nearly brown as with the soda bath. Just amazing in the toaster with some cream cheese... yum.

What this all made me wonder is... will lye leave that same taste on my pretzels? Perhaps even worse? What kind of taste does lye give to the crust anyway?

How much baking soda did you use? I typically do 1/3 cup for every 5 cups of water (that's a lot) in my bath and it works well. Also, is the baking soda fairly new?

I don't think lye does anything to make the crust taste a certain way. It's supposed to gelatinize the outside and help give it that shiny brown appearance.

http://www.applepiepatispate.com

My son and I made these over the weekend.  We let them ferment to use the time to clean up.  We baked one with a light egg wash as a test.  It came out pale but still good.  We washed the rest heavier and coated 3 with the traditional kosher salt and 3 with cinnamon and sugar.  Great recipe.  Its fairly simple, quick and forgiving which works well for making with kids.

Wow, I never knew Auntie Annes used cold baking soda. No wonder they don't taste like German pretzels.

NaOH reacts with the carbon dioxide (CO2) in the oven to form sodium carbonate, NOT sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). So there should be no NaOH left on the pretzel.

 Food grade (FCC) lye would be analyzed for trace amounts of nasty stuff, like heavy metals or PCBs (or melamin) that you don't want to eat.

There are recipes calling for 100 grams of sodium carbonate in 3 liters of boiling water and I'd like to try that. I tried the lye bath and it is essential for German-tasting pretzels. Afterwards, I diluted the lye with vinegar and poured it down the drain with plenty of water.

That being said, it's perfectly alright to make pretzels with any dough and in any manner you wish. Pretzel refers to the shape. "Laugenbrezel" refers to salty dough dipped in lye and sprinkled with salt.

Jennifer McGavin

Your Guide to German Food

http://germanfood.about.com

I have a step by step guide on homemade pretzels with lye and a pretzel recipe on About.com

I have eaten soft pretzle's in Philly, and on streets of NYC for years upon years as well as real Deutch Brau, Bier Halls in Queens, (they had the SS party song and Altercammarade,(Luftwaffer theme song)  in the juke box I kid you not).  I am very much American, of Eyetalian descent, this place was very deutche, the owners were a recent import. The food was authentic. The pretzles were mahogany, and the ryes were superb.

Pretzles need lye, period. You can make due with soda , but color and mouthfeel suffer, as well as a tiny part  of the taste.

Ever notice how if you wet a hard pretzle with your tougnge if it slides on your lips it is slippery soapy even. That is due to the reaction of a relatively strong base with the flour, lower potency caustic, makes less of impact on the pretzle skin.

Causic plus liquid fat and heat make soap that is called saponification. Homemade diesel fuel (yep it can be done)from deep fryer/whatever fat, is made by keeping the temp at a certain level with water and lye, then it "cooks" for an hour , then it separates and is rinsed out , water, glycerin and oil separate, the rinsing removes residue. Your homebrewed diesel, or home heating oil(same stuff actually), may smell like french fries or whatevr was fried, but cleaning helps.

You do not get the level of saponification if you use soda water, but, it does make a mild pretzle like crust., but it was a rather dull event when I did it last, (a few years ago and I lost the recipe). I have bought a bottle of draino (yep) like caustic.  I looked for the anaylsis (100%) and am calling the company to be sure. The place I bought said it was banne for sale in some states becuase of kids poisoning them selves or disfiguring them selves, not drug manufacture. There are other things they track because of drug manufacture this isn't one of them. You shoould wear a mask and gloves and remember

THE SIX SECOND RULE

 We were taught this the first day of biolab when I was in freshman year of HS. We used powerful reagents (acids/bases(caustic)), there were eyewashinh stations in the lab. from the time a caustic hit you, you have six seconds to wash it off. The eyes get less then six. MY lab teacher then made a mistake and burned himself on both arms and his face, just a bit, but he was reddened after smearing what looked like water but was a diluted acid solution splattered on the soapstone lab tables.

 BUT I have a question, and request, when telling peo0ple to use malt, please tell us if it is DIASTIC MALT or SWEET make  a "malted milk".

 The Reinhart book on whole grain breads explains a lot but knowing what your recipe wants is a good first step.

 Also I have a malt syrup that is meant to put in milk, so what kind of syrup is needed? Is my malt syrup crap, or real who can tell?  So if you have a brand, please tell me/us.

Things are not what they were 40 years ago. If you ask for a malted today, you will get a milk shake unless you are in  the right place. My kids heard the term malted and requested one, I made them one, they gagged.  Over a few years they relaxed and educated their palletes, malted are now de riguer, when dad is in the generous mood to make them.  And they want me , not the wife to make them, cause I make them very thick ,very malted and very very very chocolatey, else, what's the point.

The reason I bake breads are because the general use of crap in food, (not talking "healthfood") is staggering food is getting inedible, tasteless, homogonised to the point of wax.

They put seaweed and mono-diglcerides in heavy cream now, they started doing that about 10 years ago. If you are lucky were you live they do not, but, in most stores from NYC to Boston, pick up a container of heavy cream, look at the ingredients, you will find cream, milk, Mono diglceride, carregean(sea weed extrcts to make pudding).  The sea weed may even be natural, but when I want make a batch of good sour cream/creme fraishe/mascapone, I now MUST go to healthfood store, where they sell me raw  dairy, at a huge cost. This is insane.

aarrgghh 

This easily one of the top 5 sites on the net. I appologise for the rant at the end, look at a container of cream, or a loaf of bread, read the labels.

Sparkie

O.K. great discussion on the lye or soda debate but what about how gluten content affects the stretchyness and final chew of the dough. Should or could wheat gluten be added to all purpose flour to aid in rolling out the dough nice and thin. I know that gluten content is essential to bagel and pizza dough. would these doughs if available from a local shop make more ideal pretzel dough? Is the high gluten flour uneconomical if not difficult to obtain? My pretzels seem to wither and waterlog when dipped in boiling water, would a stiffer dough or higher gluten help them tolerate the dipping with less drooping? Quaker from P.A marooned in C.A.

I made a batch of these and they disappeared fast!  Truly excellent.  I used a teaspoon of baking soda in about 3 cups of simmering water and let the pretzel stay in about 15 seconds to fluff up and get sticky.  Baked on a Silpat mat, no sticking problems at all, and they had a thin crunchy shell and were soft with a good chew on the inside.  I saved one for the next day and it had that good street pretzel density to its chew.  Maybe not perfect, but by far the best pretzel I've ever made; some previous efforts from other recipes were really more like bread sticks with salt.  Thank you very much!

My wife has been making pretzels lately.  It was a request i had made of her for my birthday as a snack.  They looked perfect and tasted just as perfect as they looked.  She does the quick boil method... no lye or ferment.  I've never had a pretzel that could compare... Best of all, she thought it was super easy to make.  Guess, I have no need to learn to make them.  :)

 My Grandmother always used lye when making pretzels.  I have used both methods and prefer the addition of the lye although it is time consuming to make (water through hard wood ashes). I have not used the store variety.  Family lore says Arm and Hammer Washing Soda can be used but I have not tried it.  If you heat the lye before dipping the dough it will have a stronger flavour.  I was told that the origin of lye (ashes) in pretzel use was for religious symbolism as was the twisted (cross) shape of the dough.  Pretzels were traditionally made at Easter.  Lye imparts a slightly bitter taste... delicious with salted butter.  I'm new to the site...it's wonderful!

These were DELISH! I boiled them in baking soda and water as suggested, and they came out wonderfully!

So, the verdict here seems to be that dipping in lye is good, but at least dipping in baking soda makes a big difference.  One thing I didn't see in this thread is any consensus on whether to dip the preztels in a cold lye/baking soda bath, or a boiling one.  The original post has dipping in plain water or boiling in plain water, and several people have recommended boiling here, and some cold water.  Hamelman's formula calls for a cold lye bath, I know.  Anyway, I did an experiment.  I made the recipe from Hamelman's book, with the preferment and fermentation time, and used a baking soda solution, 2 tbs in 2 cups water, as others have suggested.

As you can see, even with baking soda in the water (maybe especially so?) boiling does make a big difference in color.  The cold-dipped ones were very good, and weren't particularly french-bready, but the boiled ones were something else.  Thinner crust and a much more "preztel-y" taste. :)

I tried this recipe and want to let everyone know that the boiling time should be around 1:30-2 minutes per pretzel (in the baking soda solution).

I normally make a solution of  4 tablespoons baking soda + 1 quart of water and then boil the pretzels around 1 minute per side.

I found that for the flour ammount you can use around 2-2 1/4 cups if you use 1 cup of milk.  

Measuring in cups is a bit tricky and you can have a vairation of 15-20g per cup....

I just tested this recipe, and it's super easy.  I used bread flour and found that it would have been a bit easier to handle the dough if I made 8 instead of 6 pretzels. I fermented for about an hour or so because I had the time.  I did the 3x stretch and roll, resting 5-10 minutes in between.

I boiled them in 4T baking soda in 1 quart of water for about 60-90 seconds.  I just slipped them into the pot with a spatula and pressed them lightly down, and lifted them out with the single spatula as well.  I used flaked sea salt to top them.

Baked on parchment paper at 425 for 13 minutes - I just watched closely after 10 minutes to see.  They didn't stick at all.

Results?  Dense but light, chewy with a crisp crust.  Amazingly delicious and authentic.  The leftovers kept well, tasted great warm or cold.  But they are best right from the oven, when the salt is still crisp.

I haven't made real pretzels yet but I have made pretzel rolls several times.  I found that they tend to cement to the baking tray.  Acht du leiber! Vie gehts?  Here is my analysis.  The rolls were formed and left to rise on a floured bread board.  They were then dipped in the alkali bath, and plopped on the cookie tray.  I think the loose flour formed a paste in the bath which tended to fuse to the metal.  The alkali solution contributed by chemically cutting the film of grease on the bake tray.  So, what is to be done?  Perhaps a more generous coating of lard or, spend some money on no-stick bakeware.

I have only tried pretzels at home once, but I want to try them again!  Your trial and error saves me a lot of time, thanks!  As for Lye, I can't even believe some people still make soft pretzels with this poison!  I would never use it!  I have heard of boiling the pretzels before, but I heard it more as a bath in warm water, and with baking soda (to give it the chewy texture and shiny exterior) I think I will try to boil them with baking soda, AND eggwash them!  Since you said the eggwash didn't really make a difference, but you did say they seemed to puff up higher, I think I will do both and see how it turns out!  It's good to know that they really don't have to rise for 10 years like other recipes I have read, too.

I want to figure out how to stuff some with cheese, any ideas?  I was thinking maybe I could take some precossed cheese and somehow shape it into a thin log, and then roll the pretzel dough out thin, and sort of wrap it around the cheese stick (ooo maybe you could use a string cheese stick!!) and then shape into a pretzel.

I also wonder how it would turn out with whole wheat flour?

Can't wait to try this recipe, thanks again!

I made his Pretzels for sale at farmers market last summer plus more for home consumption.  My grandmother (German heritage) had made Pretzels when I was growing up and used Lye I believe but I have been very happy with the baking soda solution hot water method.  I do also like the egg wash and I bake them on GREASED parchment paper. (Might try the silpat next time)   Crisp on the outside and soft inside. I did purchase Pretzel Salt online (shipping was more than the product) and it does work even better than Kosher Salt.    Luana in Vermont 

Hi!  I found this site when searching for bagel recipes (it is annoying that, if you want multigrain, you can only get it plain, not like the everything bagels I love, so I wanted to create my own); haven't made the bagels yet, but I ran across the pretzel recipe.  I just moved to Ohio from Philadelphia, PA, so I have the same multigrain pretzel problem.  I am originally from New York City, so that explains the bagel fetish.  

I made the recipe with half chickpea flour and half whole wheat pastry flour, using the baking soda bath, and they were delicious!  I am thinking it may have been too grainy with just regular ww flour, but the pastry flour was great!