The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Eric's Rye aka Mark's Favorite Rye

  • Pin It
mcs's picture
mcs

Eric's Rye aka Mark's Favorite Rye

I tend to be a bit picky when it comes to rye bread, so I've been searching for a while for 'the perfect recipe'.  This is it.  This is the same bread that was posted as 'Eric's Fav Rye' by Susan late last year, and I finally gave it a try.  I followed the recipe except for a few slight modifications (AP instead of clear flour) and kept the hydration the same.  Instead of a cornstarch glaze, I brushed on egg before the bake and sprinkled poppyseeds to top them before scoring.  I cut into it after only an hour of cooling just to try it, so the inside looks a little bit soft, but the flavor is great.  I was looking for a harder crust and since he described this as a softer one, I upped the temperature to 405 (convection) and the timing was for 33 minutes.  The proofing stayed the same.

Edit: The internal temperature after baking was 201.7F.

Eric's ryeEric's rye
Thanks Eric, for the great recipe. 

-Mark

audra36274's picture
audra36274

Hope ya'll have a big hunk of corned beef just laying around!

  Hope your bakery is growing as anticipated! Everything here is sooooo ssllllooooowww, but folks gotta eat! Hang in there. Today is my Father in Laws birthday and thanks to you I have a batch of your Portuguese sweet Rolls in for the second rise to take to his surprize birthday party. I wish you were closer , I would have loved to of just ran by and picked them up from you with all that I have to do today! Have a great day!

mcs's picture
mcs

Glad to see those PSB rolls are still working out for you.  I'll be making some up for our farmers market and they always smell so great in the oven.  Things are a little slow here also, but probably what is normal for this time of the year.  Hope the surprise party went well!

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Those look picture perfect Mark. Did you use the orange banneton or are they free form? Also what kind of rye did you use? The crumb does look like it might be light rye but it could be the lighting. Glad to hear you liked the mix. I've made a ton of that bread and it has always gotten good reviews.

 I have a batch of Norm's Onion Rolls fermenting at this time. I got thinking about a comment about boiling caraway on another thread so I decided to use the boiling re hydration water for the dry onions as part of the dough water. The house has this incredible smell of onions and that's from the dough. The re hydrated onion mix is in the fridge still. These are going to be goooood.

Makes me wonder about the rye with caraway. Maybe some of that flavor would help the over all caraway flavor.  

Eric 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

that I boil my peeled potatoes with a pinch (ok, maybe a little more) of ground caraway?

Can I have loaves delivered?  They look so good! 

Mini O

mcs's picture
mcs

Mini O,
The loaves may be a little bit spendy by the time you tack on the delivery charge, but I assure you they'll be well worth it.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

mcs's picture
mcs

The loaves were just free form - shaped into ovals and baked on parchment for the first 15 minutes.  At that point I moved them off the pan and baked them right on the oven rack.  I use Bob's Red Mill Organic Dark Rye for my starter and my rye bread.  I really like the flavor.  The photo makes it look lighter than it is.  Must've been the morning light. 
As for the caraway seeds, I just added them after the mixing was officially over, just to incorporate them for 1 minute or so on speed 1 (like with the olive bread or raisin bread).  The caraway seeds (Bob's) have a ton of flavor, so I figured they would be fine like that.
For anyone with a Hobart style mixer, the mixing time I used was 3 minutes on speed 1, 3 minutes on speed 2.  One minute on speed 1 to incorporate the caraway seeds.  And as for a reference point, at 1:30 into the speed 2 portion, the dough had 'cleaned the bowl' and was looking very healthy and strong.  At the end it was 'sticky if you move slowly, but nice if you move quickly'.

-Mark 

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Mark I never made one as nice as these. You have finished the recipe my friend. Nice addition.

Eric

Oh and if Mini orders a loaf, I want to deliver it to Korea! 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Today I baked a batch of my go to rye modified by Mark with his change in wash and seeds along with a higher oven temp. I thought I would try adding a Tablespoon of cider vinegar to the water for the dough. My thinking is that I could let the ferment go long enough to more than double the volume and not risk the dough falling apart.

I think I was slightly over hydrated and the dough was just a little sticky compared to my usual results but I had made an effort to make sure I had a well developed gluten from the All Trumps wheat flour. The dough was very smooth and elastic, more so than usual. Marks loaves looked so nice free form, I had to try and duplicate his professional looking results. So no pans or bannetons today. The dough was well enough developed that it held shape fairly well, surprisingly. Even after the slash it only partly resembled a pancake!

I heeded the steaming advice of Norm and removed the steam pan after just 5 minutes at 475F and lowered the heat to 420 for a total of 30 minutes. After I verified the internal temp was over 200F I put the loaves back in with the heat off and the door propped open for a few minutes to harden the crust slightly.

The crust was a beautiful dark golden brown with nice expansion slashes glistening with a slight shiny surface. The egg wash held the poppy seeds securely and provided a nice contrast from the open areas where the cuts opened up. The previously semi flat dough was now standing fully sprung and with a very nice high shape. A very nice loaf of rye if I do say so.

So, Mark, I'm a convert to the egg wash and poppy seeds. I'm not sure if the vinegar had any impact but the crumb was a lot more open than usual for me. I suspect that the 7 minutes of mixing/kneading in the DLX speed 2 had a large hand in allowing a nice spring. Really amazing spring for what amounts to a 50% rye sour.

Sorry no pictures today. Imagine your loaf shaped by a rookie.

Eric 

mcs's picture
mcs

Eric,
I admit, when I was shaping this dough for the first time, I thought it could stand to be a little bit drier.  By the time it was ready to go in the oven (45 minutes like your recipe says), it looked a little flat so my mental note was somethng like, "If this doesn't spring back, next time I'm adding a little more white flour to dry it up."  However, it made a great comeback in the oven with some nice spring, so I'm keeping it like it is.
For a (real) rookie, I would imagine the shaping would be very difficult and I would recommend making it a little bit drier either by adding less water or more flour.  Someone with some shaping experience though, I think, should keep it like it is and just work quickly being sure not to spend too much time shaping it.  As you can tell, the more time you spend shaping, the more difficult/sticky it gets.
Unlike the other doughs I work with, I definitely add flour to the table when I'm shaping this.
Glad you like the poppyseed/egg wash.  It's a nice visual and it really shows off the oven spring.
-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Mark,

I might not of mentioned it but I always use the wet method for rye dough. I sprinkle a little water on the work surface and spread it out and a little on my hands. I do a letter fold and tighten it up like you showed in your video with the rolling leaving the seam down. Then I scoop up one side with a bench scraper and help it along with fingers on the other and quickly place it on a cornmeal dusted parchment. I'm always surprised at how easily it goes. It looks like it would be a gloppy sticky disaster but with good development it works fine.

If you haven't tried water you are in for a surprise. I keep a bowl of water at hand and when my fingers start to get sticky I dip the hands and re moisten. There is no mess what so ever. In fact when I finish mixing I tip the dough out of the mixer bowl on to a wet counter and do a few French folds or Bertinet type folds just to confirm development and maybe tighten it up some. The dividing and shaping is done with wet counter and hands. Rye is so thirsty it quickly absorbs the surface water and the wet surface is easy to smooth out any surface irregularity's with your hands. Works for me.

Eric 

mcs's picture
mcs

Although it's 180 degrees from the way I think at the folding stage, I can understand the logic.  When I've got a few things going at once, sometimes I go from folding, to washing my hands, to checking the dough in the mixing bowl and the damp hands definitely keep the dough from sticking to my hands when I need to turn it over in the bowl.
The technique I use for shaping the rye is similar to how I shape everything else - only faster with less work.  So I keep that bottom edge the same like in the Kalamata video and I keep tucking the top over and the ends in with my pinkies until it feels tight enough.  Then I give it a quick push to put the seam on the bottom and in one motion it's off the table and traveling towards the pan.  If I did a lousy job, it's back on the table for a repeat; if it's good, then that's it.  I used to watch this guy I workded with on the opposite side of the table when we were shaping Swedish Rye, and 100% of the time he'd get it on the first push so each loaf took him about 3 seconds.
By the way, those rye of yours are selling well;  I'd send you a commission, but there isn't much profit at this point.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

ehanner's picture
ehanner

The thing that drove me to try wet was seeing the dough open up where it was floured and didn't bond well. If there is any new flour on the two surfaces of dough they might not bond and you see it later, inside the loaf. If you shape wet or at least dry without flour, that's not an issue. That's what you are showing in the shaping video, minimal flour. Next time take one loaf off to the side and use a little water instead. It's interesting how well it works. Free form only, the banneton would need flour of course.

If you go back and look at Norms posts about shaping 100% rye that's how they do it. Wet works with any dough and eliminates that issue of bringing new flour into the mix after you have the hydration you like. To me it seems like a moving target every time you introduce new flour. You know it won't be fully absorbed for 10-15 minutes.

I also think you get a better crust and less chance of skin forming(which inhibits spring). The seeds stick better to a tacky surface (Italian) also. 

Eric 

Eli's picture
Eli

Those look amazing. Did you get the crispier crust (harder crust) that you were aiming for?

 

mcs's picture
mcs

Thanks Eli,
The crust was (is) nice and crispy due to both the longer bake and egg glaze.  The inside was very moist, I think it could've baked another minute but I didn't want it to get too dark.  Next time (tomorrow) I'll check the temperature at the end of the bake.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

Very nice and look delicious. I'm waiting to see your answers to Eric's questions.                          weavershouse

mcs's picture
mcs

Thanks and they are delicious.  I ate 1/2 of that loaf (granted it was only a 1.5 pound loaf) with nothing on it for lunch.
-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com