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 Submitted by dmsnyder on June 4, 2008 - 9:50pm Russian Rye
Rusian rye bread 2 boules
Russian Rye Boule
Russian Rye Crumb Sauve posted the formula for this bread in Kosher-Baker's blog topic, "Diary of a Starter." As a confirmed rye bread lover, I was curious about how it would compare with the Jewish, Czech and Polish ryes I had already baked. I'm glad I tried it. Formula: Firm starter (73% hydration): 43 g. rye starter Mix, cover and leave for 6-7 hours at 85-90 F. The original recipe calls for 1/3 of the mother starter and fermenting for 3-4 hours, but I find that using more traditional proportions and doubling the fermentation time works equally well. Dough (69% hydration): Mix all ingredients and knead until you have well developed gluten. In KA it takes me about 12 minutes at second speed. Ferment 80 min at 85-90 F. Flatten the dough and shape a tight boule. Proof in basket, seam up, 50 minutes at room temperature. There's no need to slash. Spray with water before baking and 1 minute before taking out of the oven. Bake with steam 50 minutes at 440-450. Let the bread cool thorougly, 2 hours at least. The loaf should have shiny surface without tears and tight uniform crumb. Using medium rye flour instead of whole rye and/or bread flour instead of high extraction flour also works well.
I used my white rye starter and fed it with Guisto's Organic (whole) rye flour. I used this rye flour and KA First Clear flour in the dough. I mixed in a KitchenAid Accolade. Rather than making one large boule, I divided the dough in half and made 2 boules of 525 gms each. They proofed in wicker brotformen. I baked them on a stone with steam from hot water into a hot cast iron skillet. The boules were baked for 25 minutes at 450F. I turned the oven down to 440F, because the boules were getting pretty dark pretty fast, and continued to bake for a total of 40 minutes. The crust remained very firm, even after the loaves were fully cooled. The crumb is like that Suave showed - rather dense but not dry or "heavy" in the mouth. The taste is decidedly sour (surprisingly so). If I were doing a blind taste of this bread, I would not identify it as a rye. It tastes more like a whole wheat sourdough bread to me. There is a noticeable sweet taste, too. I assume this is from the sugar. I don't think I have ever baked a sourdough bread with added sugar before, although I have used malt and honey in sourdoughs, when the recipe called for them. I expect the bread to mellow overnight and taste significantly different tomorrow. My thanks to Suave for sharing this recipe. If he (or others) would like to tell us more about the background of this bread, I'm sure it would be appreciated. David
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Hi David, I don't know
Hi David,
I don't know anything at all about dark rye breads, I've never made them and only eaten then years ago. It looks nice!
Maybe this question was answered somewhere back, but is the yeast put in the dough to do a "Reinhart" effect (in his whole grains book)? Wouldn't the dough rise enough without it?
And, I have noticed that over there bakers tend to make small loaves. Why is that? To get more crust? (This coming from a real fan of 900g - 1kg loaves, my favorite weight!)
Jane
Added yeast
Hi, Jane.
I would say that the added yeast is not, strictly speaking, "necessary." I think a lot of recipes use added yeast to over-ride the effect of variable ambiant temperature and make the rising times more predictible. Is that what you mean by "the Reinhart effect?"
I cannot speak for anyone else "over here" regarding preferred loaf size. I love 1-2 kg loaves. However, I don't have 7 people in my household to eat my bread, not to mention horses! So, I end up freezing a lot of bread in portions to last the two of us 1-2 days, and having fewer and smaller cut surfaces reduces drying out and freezer burn. It's strictly a practical matter. Not that "having more crust" is a bad thing!
I suppose your day is just starting, but it's after my bed time here, so au revoir.
David
Added yeast
Jane,
As far as I understand the yeast is added for two reasons, first, to speed up the process - the original recipe is meant for a very large commercial bakery, so equipment turnarond times matter, second, it probably makes for a less sour bread.
Mike
Dark Rye
Those are beautiful David!! How is that crust? Does it have that sweet finish?
They look delicious!
Thanks, Eli!
I haven't tried the bread again today yet. When fresh, the crust was crisp. The crumb did have a definite sweet taste.
My wife had a slice with her breakfast. She remarked, unbiased by my comment from last night, that it had a "whole wheat" taste more than a "rye" taste. I wonder if this was the flavor of the First Clear flour over-shadowing that of the rye.
She didn't like it as much as the other slice of bread she ate, but it's hard to compete with the flavor of Nury's Light Rye.
David
They look great
David,
The loaves look awesome. It probably doesn't matter for us because here we're so used to crusty breads (and love the so much) but authentic bread in Russia would have had rather soft and pliable crust. I haven't gotten there 100% yet, but longer bake at lower temperatures definitely helps. I also remove my steam pan from the oven 10-15 minute into the bake - I think it also helps.
As far taste goes, I can't comment on sourness, I guess to a degree it depends on the starter, since you start from rye, and I - from AP white which I convert to rye, and my AP starter is very mild to taste. And then again my definition of sour is likely to differ from yours. I haven't ever used first clear, but I'm sure it can overpower the taste of rye. I, myself, routinely dilute my WW flour with white WW, as I like milder taste.
Mike
Thanks, Mike!
As I said above, I haven't tried the bread again today. The crust may have softened a lot.
I just copied your recipe, as you can see, but I did remove the skillet 10 minutes into the bake.
I'll post a message about the crust and the taste later, after I've tried it again. I'm thinking it would be really good with cream cheese and smoked salmon.
Where did you get this recipe, BTW? Do you have more recipes for Russian breads?
David
David, I do have more
David,
I do have more recipes, they come from a very old russian professional baking manual I have, but I go through it rather slowly, since it's just two of us and a two-pound loaf easily lasts a week. There're may be two dozen recipes, but not all of them are of great interest to me, since I do not like to go over 50% rye and some of them, like the famous "borodinski", I simply do not like. And then there are some truly complicated ones, like a four-stage rye - starter, mash, mash-starter levain, final dough. But here's a simple bread I tried a few weeks ago:
422 g high-extraction flour
308 g. medium rye starter, 70% hydration, fermented 6 hours at 90 F
306 g. water
12 g. salt
12 g. molasses
The procedure is virtually the same. The original recipe had yeast as an optional ingredient and I chose to forgo it and lengthen fermentation times. So, knead until gluten develops, ferment 90 minutes at 90 F, shape a tight boule, proof 1 hour at room temperature, turn over on parchment paper, spray with water, bake 50 minutes at 400 F, steam for the first 15 minutes. Spray again right before removing from the oven. This, of course, is a much lighter bread, especially if you do use medium rye flour. I don't and use whole rye. I'd probably also go easy on first clear flour, especially if you say that 50% rye turned out like whole wheat. My own substitute for high extraction flour is 50% bread flour, 25% whole wheat flour and 25% white whole wheat flour. You'll also notice that baking temperature is much lower, but this is mostly me trying to adjust the conditions to get the crust I like.
Mike
manual available?
Hi Mike,
Do you know if that manual is available anywhere?
Thanks,
:-Paul
Russian Rye on the second day
I just had a slice - well, two slices, but they were small - of the Russian Rye I baked yesterday.
The crust is now chewy, not crisp. It is still not what I would call "soft." The sourness is notably decreased. The taste is mellowed out, but still is more a whole wheat than a rye flavor. I like it better today than when I tasted it right after it had cooled from baking.
David
David, you certainly know how to charm
a (w)ryely heart. Beautiful Loaves! (Are you ready for spices yet?) I've been thinking about your cream cheese but with just a touch of horseradish in it. Just looking at your pics inspires me to bake. Thank you.
Mini O
Spices?
Hi, Mini.
I'm happy you found the photos inspiring. Now, tell me about "spices." I don't know if I'm ready for them, or not. To date, the only non-grain additions to bread doughs I've used have been nuts and seeds, except for cinnamon-raisin bread, which I haven't made in way too long.
I'll mention your horseradish creamcheese augmentation to my wife. She likes horseradish added to an amazing variety of stuff. And I have a fresh jar of horseradish and a fresh pound of cream cheese in the fridge at the moment.
David
"spices" are crushed seeds
sometimes maybe even roasted.
Mini O
recipe for one boule?
Hi David,
Simply spectacular, as usual from your loaves. I'm keen to try this one out! Just confirming, the recipe above is for one boule? Or two?
Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes!
One or two
Hi, paddyboomsticks.
Mike's recipe was for one 2-pound boule. I divided the dough in two.
I like this kind of bread baked in large loaves, but, if I'm going to freeze some of the bread, I'd rather freeze a whole loaf than a cut one. So, I made smaller boules.
David
They were great
Fyi, David, these were great, and my boules looked almost exactly like yours - slighly more caramelised, however (do you have a fan-forced oven? I also had to retard in the fridge overnight because of timeframes, which may have had something to do with it).
Crumb was identical to yours, and really delicious for, I guess you'd call it a semi-heavy rye.
Alas, I had to wrap it up for the plane before I could get a picture, and then it was duly devoured. I'll get one next time! Good recipe, very happy with the mature, but still smooth taste.
I found it went great with a nice sour marmalade or brie and fig jam, etc. :)
I'm glad you liked it.
I do have a convection oven, but I have the option of regular or convection cooking. I thought the fan might help even the temperature, but the temperature seems pretty even without it. I thought the convection feature might help dry the bread and crisp it at the end of the bake, but it seems to just blow the moist air around with no perceptible difference in the crust. So, I don't use convection for baking bread.
Do you feel otherwise?
I wonder if your overnight retarding impacted the crust.
David
I have a convection oven
I have a convection oven that I can stop as well, but I always use it when baking. I don't know why! I think I'm afraid the heat won't be properly distributed otherwise.
Jane
Another experiment?
David
I have found little difference also
When switching between the cooking methods. However, I will say that fan forced in my oven at any rate seems to, not harden the crust any more, but it will cook it more if that makes sense.
When I use the fan sometimes I will cover the bread before the loaf is cooked, or turn the oven down sooner than I would otehrwise.
This all said, I think the defining factor here was the overnight retard in the fridge. I have found, _particularly_ with wholemeals and ryes, that an overnight retard greatly enhances the caramelisation of the crust, it 'burns' a lot easier.
Usually this is great, because it's so hard to get a tough crust on the wholemeals I find, but it can make it a bit too dark sometimes...
My theory (I'm no bread scientist like some of the experts here!) is that the yeast takes advantage of the extra time to break down some of the more complex carbohydtares/bran etc. and convert it into simpler sugars, which then are consumed and also cooked when popped into the oven. It's just a theory though.
Your theory.
I happen to share your theory.
I know! Let's vote on it!
David
A big disaster!
So, I baked my two loaves without the convection. I lost a lot of oven spring, the bottoms of the bread didn't even bake when usually they are browned and crisp like they'd been on a stone. They needed way longer even though I baked them at 230°C instead of 210°C. The taste is fine, but the bread is more humid than usual even though the internal temp was right.
I'll be sticking to the convection feature from now on!!! And I understand now the complaints and disappointment of bakers with crummy ovens.
Jane
Convection and oven spring
Hi, Jane.
That is really interesting!
I have never used the convection feature for the whole bake, just the last half. I wonder if your experience is generalizable or ideosyncratic.
Hmmmm ... My next bakes are going to be Nury's Light Rye and Greenstein's Sour Rye. I may do Pat's baguettes Sunday. I'd really want to try convection on a levain boule or a batard.
David
I am convinced that the oven
I am convinced that the oven will make or break a baker's motivation to bake. Definitely try and tell me what happens.
Jane
You can count on it!
David