Dry Layer on Top of Starter?
I'm new to sourdough baking - I've only done two loaves so far. I'm kind of stumbling in the dark in regard to my starter (homemade) and I'm looking for some insight.
I have a 100% hydration einkorn starter (Leroy). I feed him once a day and he rises nicely within the expected 4-12 hour timeframe. I wash the jar at every feeding, and he only gets distilled water (or filtered when I don't have distilled on hand). I feed him twice a day two days before baking day, and he usually peaks about four hours when he is very active.
He looks completely normal while he's rising. However, once he peaks and starts to deflate, the bubbles at the top dry up and form a layer on the top of the starter. The top then has this white-ish hue to it.
Here's the dreaded question: is this mold??? At first I was mixing the layer into the starter when I did my feedings, but now I peel the layer off the top and take out the stuff from underneath.
As I said, I've made two loaves with him. Multiple people ate the first loaf, and I'm currently eating through my second loaf. No one has experienced any food poisoning symptoms. Does bread from bad/moldy starter make you sick, or would the mold get killed in the baking process?
Here's the second dreaded question: should I throw him out? I've started another starter to compare, and so far Leroy IV (there were some accidents that happened to Leroy II and Leroy III) does NOT have this dry layer on top.
I've added some pictures (one with flash and one without) for people to take a look at. This is my first post and it seems like I added the pictures twice - sorry about that.
Hopefully the diagnosis is not as dire as I am thinking!
Tks!
Sam
Hi Sam, Leroy looks healthy to me! My starter also dries out on the top layer (I live in a very dry environment), and I just stir it in. Mold would take a LOT longer to develop and is usually pinkish/orangish. I wouldn't worry about washing your jar so often either (I wash my crock maybe every other week if it gets really gunky?). Happy baking!
Hi Dynamite,
Thanks for the insight! I thought one day was a bit soon for mold to be developing, but I also thought it was a bit strange that it got dry and dull after peaking. Then again, I do live in a very dry climate and we are heading into winter, which just makes things worse, so I guess it's not so strange.
I know the washing is a bit extreme, but I don't like the "look" of a dirty jar, and I find it easier for measuring the exact amount of starter to pour some off in a bowl rather than just dumping "half". I plan to get a set of Weck jars so I can transfer to a new one while the others are in the dishwasher, then it won't be so tedious.
Thanks again!
Sam
If it's not related to the flour, then it's probably mold of the grayish black/green kind. Nothing to worry about. Just take some from the bottom and feed (a lot) in a clean jar till and stir here and there till it starts to act like normal. Cleaning regimen sounds a little extreme, but if not doing it bugs you don't stop, it won't hurt anything (I never clean the jar myself, if I forget about it in the fridge for a couple years it can get moldy, but I try to not do that too often).
Why mold - sounds like this is a young starter and may be weak or out of balance. When mature and in balance the nasties have a hard time getting established so not a problem. Enjoy!
Hi Phaz,
You are correct, he is a young starter and I think he is probably out of balance. I was kind of stumbling around in the dark when I started him, so I didn't really know what I was doing when I was feeding him probably the first two to three weeks. I think I'll start feeding him more regularly to get him back on track.
I'm kind of invested in him and I don't want to throw him out. He survived being partially baked when I was pre-heating the oven once (I forgot I was storing him in the oven with the light on to keep him toasty) and I figure if he can survive that, we can get past a little mold!
Tks!
Sam
What you're seeing is nothing - if you pop the lid off and immediately get the dry heave - that's a problem - but it came back!
Here's what needs to be done. Very small amount of starter, lots of food - some time.
Feeding more often - may not be the thing to do. This big feed is a cure so to speak for the ailment. Not a proper feeding routine. You have to determine that on your own for your own starter, food and environment.
I have a method to help figure that out, but honestly I don't want to type all that again. I do have the method laid out in a couple 3 posts, try searching for phaz firstashley and check some threads - there's a bit of good info in there - we got a starter straightened out and a good feed routine. Enjoy!
That was quick - http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65382/what-going-my-starter
Hi Phaz,
I read through the feed - it's quite long and detailed, but it has lots of good info in there!
Based on what I read, I am going to start feeding Leroy a 122 ratio and see how that goes.
I'm curious, in there you said at one point you never have discard. How on earth do you manage that? Do you just keep increasing the feed amounts (in g so the ratio stays the same) and then when you have enough starter you just bake something? I'm tired of throwing out starter, and there's no way I could possibly eat starter discard recipes every day!
Tks for your insight - you're clearly a very experienced sourdough baker! I hope to learn more from you as I continue to bake! I'll try another loaf when Leroy is back on track, but I really want to try pizza dough at some point! I'm still getting a bit overwhelmed with the whole process, but it's getting better!
Sam
If you start small enough, you can end up with almost nothing left, which is what I do. I probably mentioned it in there somewhere, but I start with jar scrapings, feed a lot, then basically let it grow into itself. For my schedule and the amount I use, which isn't a lot, it works out great.
I posted a kinda formula before that goes something like this (a mature stable starter and a proper daily feed routine required)
You need 100 starter every 4 days.
100/4=25
25/4=6.25
Lather rinse repeat and you'll see how little you can start with. You can feed daily (ha - not for me!) or just throw it all in and stir here and there - always stir with authority.
Experienced - eh - more than some, less than others. Only been making my own breads for something like 15 or so yrs., too much trouble to keep track!
Pizza - since you mentioned it - didn't work for me. I don't believe sd is for everything, it's another tool to use when you want too make something a certain way, like anything else you toss into the pile of goop. Enjoy!
such great advice! Early days for me but I do think it makes a difference.... ;-)
Stir with authority - works with short putts, why not starters!
There is method to the madness. Our bugs don't get around very well on their own, we have to move them. A coupe if twirls with a butter knife doesn't really do a lot, so whip it good - wow - that was a tune in the 80s i think - scary I remember that (especially since I didn't like it)! Enjoy!
I've been adjusting my feeding ratios based on your advice, and it seems to be working! The first couple of days I did a 122 ratio, but was still seeing some of the dry, hard top so I've upped it to 133 and I think that is the correct ratio for now. I'm going to be baking a loaf in the next day or two, so we'll see how it goes!
Regarding putting starters in the fridge, I've read in other places that you should wait three to four months for the starter to get strong enough before you start keeping it in the fridge. Is this correct in your experience? Leroy is just about one month old, so in that case, it seems like I should be feeding him daily at room temperature for the next two months or so. Is that what you would recommend?
Also, I'm struggling with timelines. Do you have a general timeline that you follow when you make sourdough? I know it will depending on each individual starter, the weather, room temperature, etc., but what is a general guideline that I can follow in order to time out my activities?
Sam
Fridge - yup, it should be strong before getting cold, and that's what you're doing be stirring and not, yeah not, feeding. The ideal feed routine would be the one that gives a little rise with a certain feed amount in a certain period of time. Once this has been achieved, and is reacting reliably for a week or 2, it can be considered mature and can go to the fridge. 3 or 4 months - well, I can see that timeframe, especially with the, let's say, not so good instructions out there on creating and maintaining a starter. I usually get a starter established within a week, a week or so later I'm using it, and it gets fridge time probably a week after that.
Timelines - I don't bother as there really is none. Like you said, it depends on a lot of factors. Only thing I can say is try a certain procedure, observe results and adjust accordingly. Funny thing is, once you do get something to work, expect it to change! Starters change, flours change, environment changes. The more ya learn about how things work, the less of a problem those things tend to be. You gotta do the legwork, just part of the fun. Enjoy!