The Fresh Loaf

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Seeking Advice on Recent Bake: Was This Dough Fully Fermented?

mathandbread's picture
mathandbread

Seeking Advice on Recent Bake: Was This Dough Fully Fermented?

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping to get some feedback about what may have gone wrong with a recent bake. I have been having good luck with an all-purpose flour starter and 100% white bread flour dough, but have been having some trouble with a whole wheat starter and a primarily white bread flour dough.

78% hydration

18% stiff whole wheat starter (@60% hydration)

95% white bread flour 5% whole wheat flour

Proofed for a total of 5 hrs 30 mins @ about 76-78F.

Periodic stretch and folds during the first 2 hrs 30 mins.

Cold proofed in fridge for 16 hrs.

Here is a video of the "poke test" for the dough right before shaping: 

 And here is a video of the shaping. I'm really curious for any thoughts about how the dough looks at this stage. I feel like it should be much "fluffier" and more stretchable than it is?:

And here is a photo of the final product.

 

Thanks a million for any advice!!

andykg's picture
andykg

hi, its hard to tell but I thought the poke test showed the dough being a little over proofed in the first vid. Its difficult to tell if you do a double poke. If it slowly sprung back then its ready, if it left a big indent then its over proofed.

The second vid looks like you have preshaped it first as its floured, how long did you leave it to relax before final shaping?

 

mathandbread's picture
mathandbread

Got it, thank you! There's another poke at the beginning of the shaping video, too. I felt like it spring back slowly, but I could be wrong! 

I did preshape and flour, and let it rest for about 10 minutes before the final shaping.

andykg's picture
andykg

The dough will be tight and harder to shape if you left it 10 minutes, try at least 20 but better still 30 minutes after the preshape stage before finally shaping

Benito's picture
Benito

What about your bread aren’t you happy with?

Photos of the crumb would help a lot with assessing the bread overall, the outside only tells us so much.

I watched your shaping video.  I’d say that you do not need to so thoroughly flatten it out before shaping.  By doing so much stretching out and flattening with your hand you may have degassed the dough more than you intended.  A bit of gently degassing is useful during shaping, but I’m guessing that you degassed too much.  

After flipping the pre-shaped dough over, give it a couple of gently tugs to stretch it out a bit, no need to do more than that.  I wouldn’t use the palm of my hand to press down on the dough at that point.  The dough surface after flipping is going to be the inside of your loaf and isn’t floured so if you press your palm against it, it will stick and damage the gluten and degas.  If you flour your hand enough not to stick, you’ll be adding too much raw flour to the inside of your bread which you don’t want.

Benny

mathandbread's picture
mathandbread

I updated the original post with a photo of the crumb. I'd like something which is less dense, has a more uniform crumb, and which rises to form a nice ear (like my 100% white bread flour loaf, did).

 

Thank you very much for the advise on the shaping, I really appreciate it. I just feel like the dough at that point should feel much airier! I'm looking at 31:45 from this video, for instance, and feeling like my dough is completely different!

Any idea what I might be doing wrong, especially in comparison to the above video? Thank you so much!

Benito's picture
Benito

I would say that your dough was a bit underproofed.  Have a look at your starter, was it at peak when you used it?  Does it at least double in 3-4 hours after a feed of 1:2:2?

Again I look at your shaping, you and pressing down on your sticky dough and pulling at it way too much.  I think you’ve also degassed your dough by the excessive manipulation.  There is absolutely no need to get it as stretched out and flat as you have before you start to actually shape it.  I couple of gently tugs is all you need.

trancer's picture
trancer

Looking at the way you stretch the dough before shaping... I worry that you are degassing the dough by doing this; which diminishes the light structure you'll be looking for in the dough itself.