The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Oven Spring Help Please!

PaladinBill's picture
PaladinBill

Oven Spring Help Please!

Hello Folks,

New to the forum, read quite a bit on here over the last couple of years however, but never posted.  I've been muddling my way through the art of bread making with some success.  However, I have flat-ish loaves of sourdough about 50% to 60% of the time.  I take notes on each bake, but can't seem to get the consistency I'm looking to achieve.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

First, my equipment.  I have a 48" Blue Star Platinum gas range.  I bake inside a dutch oven for most of the cook (I will spell out the process below).  

The process, based mostly on Flour Water Salt Yeast, has just been adjusted for my schedule slightly.

Room temp is 68-70 deg average

Note:  I use 80 deg water to help slow down the starter and the bulk fermentation a little.  If I use 90 to 95 deg water, my starter is ready at 11am to noon.  However, I am working.  By using 80 deg water, it is double to triple by 4pm.

604g Shepherds Grain AP Flour

276g Spelt flour (Forest River)

684g 80 deg tap water

30g fine sea salt

250g levain

 

6:00 am Feed Starter (currently use 80 deg well tap water)

5:00 pm Autolyse

5:30pm Mix (pincer method)

6:00pm S&F #1 (stretch & fold)

6:20pm S&F #2

6:40pm S&F #3

7:00pm S&F #4

6:00am Pre Shape

6:20am Final Shape boules and put in floured bannetons with big plastic bags over them

Preheat oven to 475 deg

9:00am Flip onto parchment paper, score and bake for 30 min (I sometimes spritz a little water into the dutch oven)

9:25am Drop temp to 450 deg

9:30am Place directly on rack for 10 minutes for color (temp to 190 deg internal)

9:40am Rest for a few hours or as long as possible :)

 

I have had some successes, I suspect my dough is possibly over proofing during the bulk fermentation, but just not sure.  I've tried 10 hrs bulk fermentation, but still not consistent results.

ciabatta's picture
ciabatta

Shepherd's Grain AP flour is their low gluten flour. at about 10% protein. 80% hydration might be a bit much for it. 
How was the dough holding up after your last stretch and fold? window pane test ok? 

Schedule is definitely different than what I've seen.  Normally 3-6 hour Bulk fermentation which is after mixing in levain and before preshape. you would retard the shaped dough in their baskets overnight refrigerated and then bake in the morning.  Shaping after such a long rest would take all the spring out of it and also burst a lot of bubbles.

that said... the crumb in the photos doesn't look bad at all. Looks like a light and even crumb.

PaladinBill's picture
PaladinBill

Thank you for the reply, the window pane test is awesome.  After the 4th stretch and fold, this batch of dough was very smooth and extensible.  This run had a great look and feel.  

I was questioning the 12 to 14 hr bulk fermentation, because I've done the overnight country blonde (I think that is the correct name) where there is a 4 to 6 hr bulk, shape and retard in the refrigerator overnight.  Those loaves came out much better as far as oven spring goes.  I will attach some pictures of that particular run

These were also made using the Shepherd's Grain AP.

Thanks again!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Bill, looks like you are using too much salt. Salt is normally 1.8 - 2% of the total flour weight. In your case your total flour weight is 1005g. That assumes your starter is 100% hydration. I’d cut the salt back to 20 grams. With bread, small things can have a large affect.

In all honesty, your breads look pretty good. But if spectacular is what you’re after developing oven spring is a good place to focus your efforts towards. You may find something of interest HERE. Gluten development, proper structure and shaping, and correct fermentation are vital.

Ciabatta’s observation about the protein percentage and hydration is spot. That should be considered. I have no idea how much the whole wheat flour will affect the absorption of water. You’ll need to be the judge, but a stronger flour sounds like a good idea. Consider trying something in the 11.5-12.5% range if it is available.

PaladinBill's picture
PaladinBill

Thank you DanAyo and Ciabatta, I have a few things to try.  Thank you for the link, I read your articles and that does help and makes sense too.  I have had better luck when the dough comes right out of the fridge to the oven.

First, I'm going to follow my current procedure and reduce the salt and see where that goes.

Second, I am going to replace the Shepherds Grain with King Arthur AP.

Lastly, I am going to play with the timing to do a 4 to 6 hr bulk with an overnight in the fridge after shaping.

I will do each one independently , so I can measure the results.

Thanks again for the help and the kind words, I am a perfectionist by nature and will tweak things until I'm happy (which never happens).

Bill

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Please post your finds. I am interested in the results.