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Troubleshooting dense bread/no rise

auberg's picture
auberg

Troubleshooting dense bread/no rise

Hi all,

Please help!!

I've recently started baking with starter, and have run in to some troubles in my first pure starter loaves (hybrid ones worked well). I've built a starter following Ken Forkish's instructions in FWSY (scaled down to reduce waste), and it is 3 or so weeks old. The last two loaves I've baked were the overnight country blonde from FWSY, both of which did not rise much during bulk fermentation (with the second loaf rising the most and growing ~1.5x). Forkish calls for an overnight bulk ferment, and waiting until the dough grows 2-3x in size, which I am not achieving. By the time I try to shape the rounds the next morning, they remain sticky and don't hold their shape. When they go in the dutch oven, they simply spread out as much as they can, and get little to no oven spring, leaving me with a dense round with a tacky, almost sticky crumb that looks as though it's cooked through. I pull it when the outside is golden, and just before the bottom burns. Here's a picture of the most recent one

What am I doing wrong? I know some people think the overnight bulk ferment is too long, but if my dough isn't rising much as it is, it seems like that means it isn't a problem with the fermentation, but maybe the starter? Any advice you could give me would be so so appreciated. 

BaniJP's picture
BaniJP

From your description it sounds like underproofed dough. Can you give us the recipe so we know what we are dealing with?

What I can already tell is that during bulk fermentation the dough doesn't need to double in size when using sourdough starter. Usually ~50-60% increase in size is when it's done. Maybe your dough was overproofed?

auberg's picture
auberg

The percentages are: White flour--90% Whole wheat flour-- 5% Rye flour--5% Water--78% Salt--2.2% Levain--12% (though in my second attempt it was probably closer to 13-14%). Forkish has you feed the starter (once a day with: 25g starter, 25g whole wheat flour, 100g AP, and 100g 85-90ºF water), and wait about 7 hrs to incorporate it into the autolyse. He then has you place the dough in a container,  do a 12-15hr bulk fermentation with 3-4 folds, until it is 2.5-3x in size, which I am not achieving. The recipe then has you shape it and proof at room temp for about 3.5-4hrs, and then bake. However, the dough really hasn't been holding tension when I shape it, and remains unworkably sticky. I've been proofing in a colander lined with a floured kitchen towel.

 

Interesting! So it seems like the rise I'm getting during bulk fermentation is not to blame for the density of the bread, but maybe the shaping?

BaniJP's picture
BaniJP

Is the bulk fermentation done at room temperature? Because 12-15 hours is a very long time to proof, even with only 12% starter. I would say about half as much is enough (6-8 h, depending on temperature). When proofing too long, the gluten network becomes too weak and delicate and just can't hold any gas anymore.

Give it enough stretch & folds, especially when working with higher hydration. I usually start doing 2-3 folds 15 min. apart, then 2-3 more 30 min. apart and more if needed. Over time you can feel when your dough is strong enough, usually when it shows resistance, but is still bouncy and easy to work with. Also when it kinda holds its shape some time after the last fold, that is another sign you can leave it alone for the rest of bulk fermentation. Joshua Weissman explains this better than me here.

As I said, the dough doesn't need to double or triple in size when working with starter. I thought so too earlier and ended up with quite flat breads. About 50-70% increase is already enough.

To be honest, I'm also still struggling with finding the right moment to end bulk fermentation, but there are a few signs: 
- the dough needs to feel smoother and hold a round-ish shape (given you gave it enough folds) 
- it needs to feel lighter, yet strong (not delicate as if were to collapse)
- visible volume increase, but not a lot

3,5-4 h final proof seems somewhat accurate, given the little amount of starter. Just be sure to use the poke test.

auberg's picture
auberg

This is fantastic insight, thank you! Next time (once I get more flour) I'll try it with a 4-6hr bulk ferment, and an overnight fridged proof, then bake!

BaniJP's picture
BaniJP

Rather do 6-8 h, with that little starter it takes quite long to overproof, so you can be generous with time. 

There is somewhat a rule of thumb for bulk fermentation times (which may vary due to many reasons): 50% starter = 2-3 h bulk fermentation, 25% = 4-5 h, 12,5% = 8-9 h...so when you half starter amount, double fermentation time. Doesn't apply to final proof though.

auberg's picture
auberg

Thanks again for your help!! Seems like bread making is half science, half experimentation, and half guesswork