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50% wholewheat sourdough - third attempt

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

50% wholewheat sourdough - third attempt

Here is my third attempt at sourdough bread.

50% white flour - 50% wholegrain (wheat & spelt)

Hydration 80%

Starter 15%

 

I proofed at room temp for about 2-3hrs... which (I think) resulted in a less sour taste. I think my overnight fridge-proofed bread was tastier

Thoughts? I was quite happy with the result, though had a moment of panic when it stuck to the teatowel after final proof... and I had to cut the stuck part off :( it rose more than I thought it would in the oven though.

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Nina,
Looks like a winner to me. You are off to a great start.

Here is a link that might interest you.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56742/community-bake-maurizios-fiftyfifty-whole-wheat-sourdough-everyone-welcome

If you decide to try it, post images and your experience to that link. Myself and others are sure to notice it and reply. Community Bakes are a blast and a great way to learn in a sharing environment.

Danny

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

Ah, thanks so much! I'll definitely give that a go and post experience. It's so great being part of this forum!

I wonder if you can answer this question - I'm happy overall with this 50% WW loaf, but the bread still feels a little 'heavy'/stiff despite the good amount of air pockets. Any idea what the reason for this could be?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Whole grain will always be more heavy than white flour. It’s the nature of the beast.

It is good to try to get more open crumb and oven spring, but the baker finds peace and enjoyment once they accept the characteristics of whole wheat. The nutrition and flavor makes it special and worth while. And of course, the larger the percentage of whole wheat, the denser the loaf.

Here is a link to 100% whole wheat bread that I got lucky with. Everything went perfect and the loaves were exceptional. But for me, these are the exceptions, and definitely not the rule. Learn to accept it’s limitations.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/61367/whole-grain-sourdough-match-made-heaven

Danny

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

A fantastic answer! Thank you. And wow, that bread looks GREAT!

Another question for you: thus far, my method has always been as follows: mix flour & water and AL for about 1 hour, then add starter and salt and proceed from there.

Do you think that the levain method - as in, making a levain with starter + flour, separate to autolyse, and then combining everything before bulk rise, provides better results? It's a bit more complex, but if results are better then perhaps worth it.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The first paragraph details the typical procedure for whole wheat. That is, autolyse the flour and water, then afterwards add the levain - mix in, then add the salt.

I don’t understand this one. “ Do you think that the levain method - as in, making a levain with starter + flour, separate to autolyse, and then combining everything before bulk rise, provides better results? It's a bit more complex, but if results are better then perhaps worth it.” Please explain.

Dan

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

Thanks Dan. I'm pretty sure my limited knowledge is causing confusion!

What I mean is this: in my recipe, I add the sourdough starter from my jar straight into the autolysed flour and water.

In some recipes, (like Maurizio's WW recipe for community bake) there's an added 'levain build' step: sourdough starter is first mixed with a portion of flour and left to ferment for a while, before being added to autolysed flour and water.

I'm just wondering if this extra step makes a big difference.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The most common method by far is to build your levain to the proper size in a separate container. Autolyse flour and water separately, then add the levain after the autolyse is finished.

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

Ok, so I guess it's worth trying then! Thanks for clarifying. Is that also sometimes called "the sponge"?

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

And this is what happened today. 50% wholewheat, and my most even crumb yet. SO HAPPY!!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Now that’s some bread for munching on...

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

The heaviness can be a matter of moisture, if, as you say it's not dense per-se.

As was mentioned in previous posts, there are three ways to reduce moisture:

1. use less hydration up front.

2. bake off more water with a longer, but lower temperature bake.

3. Let it cool and sit longer.  When bakers say "let it cool" that does not mean just wait until it comes down in temperature.  It means waiting more, even after the temp comes down, so the moisture evaporates off through the crust.  And, more importantly, so the starch "sets up" in the crumb.  Also, and this is especially important for loaves with whole wheat or sourdough, so it develops better flavor.

If I can resist the temptation to start eating it, I do a three step cool down:

1) let it sit out uncovered, on a rack, or leaned up against something for 2 hours.

2) then cover it with a paper towel or put it in a paper bag to evaporate more, 10-12 hours.

3) then place it in a sealable plastic bag until 20 hours after it came out of the oven.  

I've tried 2 hours, 12 hours, and 18 hours, and for my breads, the "magic flavor" doesn't show up until 20 hours after it's removed from the oven.

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

Thanks for the tips. 

1. Less hydration - Will have to try. I'm under the impression that higher water content results in a lighter, more aerated bread. So if I reduced water for a 'lighter' loaf, how might that impact the crumb?

2. Ok, interesting, could try this. I baked this at 230c (that's how high my oven goes) with lid on for 25 mins, then lid off another 25 mins roughly.

3. I made this bread last night and let it sit on a rack overnight. So it had 12 hours to cool. Maybe it was a mistake leaving it uncovered?

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

"1. Less hydration - Will have to try. I'm under the impression that higher water content results in a lighter, more aerated bread. So if I reduced water for a 'lighter' loaf, how might that impact the crumb?"

There is a "sweet spot" for hydration for every formula, and it's closely tied to most everything else: percent whole wheat, protein percent of all the flours in the formula, how much the flour has oxidized,  autolyse time, PPF (percent prefermented flour), time and temp of bake, length of cooling period.    

That's why we need to keep good notes, and change only one variable at a time.  (Which I don't do very well.)

"3. I made this bread last night and let it sit on a rack overnight. So it had 12 hours to cool. Maybe it was a mistake leaving it uncovered? "

Not a problem if it was still moist.  It's also important to not cut it at all, since the mositure will come out the open part instead of through the crust.  Another rule I sometimes violate. ;-)

ninarosner's picture
ninarosner

And worked more intuitively with my recipe, changing one thing at a time. Today's result was GREAT! (see picture above). A really even, soft crumb, better than anything I've had before. 50% wholewheat.

This could be down to two things: 

a) Longer final proof time - it proofed in the fridge for 16 hours. Purely because I was out of the house. But it seems to have had a positive effect (though last time I proofed in fridge, this didn't happen)
b) My sourdough starter was fed for the first time with white flour instead of wholewheat. Could that possibly have made a diff? Does white flour accelerate fermentation?